Forum # 5 (mar. 23 - apr. 4, 2011)

Posted 23 March 2011 - 09:30 AM
Abramelin, on 22 March 2011 - 10:27 PM, said:
OK, an example of a 'vliedberg' and maybe a 'flyburg' :

Very nice, thanks.
You're right about "Vlied-", but a -burch is not a -berg, although many will have been built on one.
Since Kalta's Flyburg was an important place for trading writing-felt (schrijf-vilt), it will have had a harbor.
Where would this have been?

### Posted 23 March 2011 - 03:06 PM
Abramelin, on 23 March 2011 - 02:06 PM, said:
OK, I'll have a good look:

Transliteration by Ottema:
As tha bêda nêva-t-althus navt ênes wrde koste, gvng Tünis to aend stek en râde fône in-t strând, aend Inka êne blâwe. Thêr aefter macht jahwêder kjasa, hwam ek folgja wilde, aend wonder, by Inka thêr en gryns hêde vmbe tha kaeningar fon Findas folk to thjanja, hlipon tha mâsta Finna aend Mâgjara ovir. As hja nw thaet folk tellath aend tha skêpa thêr nêi dêlath hêde, tha skêdon tha flâta fon ekkorum; fon nêf Tünis is aefternêi tâl kêmen, fon nêf Inka ninmer.

Translation using the Deutsches Rechtwoerterbuch:
As tha beda neva ‘t ‘althvs navt enes wrde koste , gvng Tvnis to and stek en rade fone in ‘t strand , and Inka ene blawe . Ther after macht iahweder kiasa , hwam ek folgia wilde , and wonder , bi Inka ther en grins hede vmbe tha kaningar fon Findas folk to thiania , hlipon tha masta Finna and Magiara ovir . As hia nw that folk tellath and tha skepa ther nei delath hede , tha skedon tha flata fon ekkorvm; fon nef Tvnis is afternei tal kemen , fon nef Inka ninmer .

So according to you this is either a lie, or it is wrong...

According to this so-called 'translation', it is not similar, but exactly the same (apart from the accents).
Now don't you think that would have been noticed by any previous researcher?

I tried three words on http://drw-www.adw.u...delberg.de/drw/, with this result:

nêva = 'neva' wurde im Index nicht gefunden (= not found)
fône = 'fone' wurde im Index nicht gefunden.
kjasa, = 'kjasa' wurde im Index nicht gefunden.

Knul did not explain how he did it.
Therefore I cannot say where he went wrong.

I analysed these dialects earlier, for example, see:

Otharus, on 16 January 2011 - 02:57 PM, said:
If anyone else is interested in comparing three known versions of Old-Frisian (ca. 12th century), here's some links:
Londriuht (Rüstringer) (not dated as far as I know, but probably from ca. 12 century)
Landriocht (Westerlauwers)
Land- and Skeltana Riucht (Westfrisian)

The Rüstringer dialect does NOT seem to be more similar to the OLB language than the other dialects. The old-Westfrisian dialect actually seems to be closest related. At first sight all three varieties seem to share the language of the OLB as a common ancestor. A thorough examination may prove this to be right.

The following is a sample of the Rüstringer dialect, taken from the link above, with the there provided German translation as well as my improvised English translation. As usual I try to stay close to the original rather than write good English. I have converted the original into capitals for an easier comparison with the OLB language.

HIR IS ESKRIUIN,
Hier ist geschrieben,
Here is written,
THET WI FRISA ALSEK LONDRIUHT HEBBE AND HALDE,
daß wir Friesen solches Landrecht haben und halten,
that we Frisians have and hold such landright (-law),
SA GOD SELUA SETTE, AND EBAD,
wie Gott selber es setzte, und Er gebot,
as God himself put it, and commanded,
THET WI HILDE ALLE AFTE THING AND ALLE RIUHTE THING.
daß wir alle gesetzlichen Bestimmungen und alle Rechtssatzungen halten sollten.
that we will have all ... thing and all right-thing.
...
(etcetera)

My conclusion was that all dialects have things in common with the OLB language, but Rostringer LESS SO than the other varieties. See underlined fragment in the above quote.

### Posted 23 March 2011 - 03:13 PM
Abramelin, on 23 March 2011 - 02:02 PM, said:
Btw, as you have read, I translated the word RUM using a Gothic and Old German dictionary to which the 'Taaldacht' site links to. From that site I also tried to use the Old Norse, Old Frisian and Old English dictionary, but I could not find a RUM there...

Ruim/ Ruimte - Dutch
Rymden - Swedish
Rum - Danish
Raum - German

### Posted 23 March 2011 - 03:32 PM
Abramelin, on 23 March 2011 - 02:11 PM, said:
But I think your objection against that possibility is based on the fact that many of these VLIEDBERG changed into motte castles.. only during the middle ages.

And that would give somewhat of a problem for the true age of the OLB.

I don't see how that would be a problem.

But anyway...

No, it's more that a "burcht" from where international felt-trade took place must have been bigger than what would have fitted on a terp/ hill like the ones on your images. Also they must have had a harbor.

Wiltenburg or Viltenburg is thought to have preceeded (and/or having been close to) Utrecht, but I believe Delahaye was right to place it near the West-Flemmish Trajectum (now Tournehem), at the coast of Pas-de Calais. If that is true, it might be a good candidate for the location of Kelta's Flyburg.

### Posted 23 March 2011 - 03:40 PM
Abramelin, on 23 March 2011 - 03:22 PM, said:
But not in Old Norse, Old Frisian and Old English.

And did the word show up in Sweden and Denmark in ancient times?

One should say so, because the Gothic language must have had close ties with Sweden and Denmark.

I would not know how to check that online, but look what I found in my files:

EFTER ROMULO AND REMO, THET WERON THA TVENE BROTHER,
nach Romulus und Remus - das waren die beiden Brüder,
after Romulus and remus, that were the twin brothers,
THER RUME EROST STIFTON, JULIUS AND OCTAUIANUS,
die Rom zuerst erbauten - Julius und Octavianus;
who first founded Rome, Julius and Octavianus,

(from the Rustringer 10 commandments)

### Posted 23 March 2011 - 05:12 PM
Abramelin, on 23 March 2011 - 04:26 PM, said:
About that 'brown shield':
Then he hoisted up his brown shield, and sailed straight to our fleet.

Aha, so I should have done a quick 'control-F'.
Thanks.

I did not study that Klaas Kolyn rhimechronical yet.
I would not be surprised if that turns out to be authentic too.

About the other two:
Have you ever read an old Norse saga? Very different style than OLB. Apart from the Frya - Freya and Wodin - Odin (vague) connection, there's no similarity at all in style.
And no Godfried the Old, nor wooden bonds in OLB.

### Posted 23 March 2011 - 05:22 PM
Abramelin, on 23 March 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:
This is all the OLB says about this Godfried:

The Witkoning—that is, the Sea-king Godfried the Old—made separate numbers for the set hand and for the runic hand.

The OLB never says when this Godfried lived, so it could have been the one who was a contemporary of Liko

No, that part is from the Adela's Followers' Book, compiled in the 6th century BC, that is almost 1,5 millennium before Knul's Godfried.

Besides, inventing a script for numbers is quite different from putting wooden bonds around Frisians their necks...

More dogs are called "Fikkie". (Dutch expression)

Think of how many king Willems we have had in the last few hundred years.

EDIT: the text about Godfried was copied in the 6th century BC, but it does indeed not say when he lived. At least it was before the 6th c. BC.

### Posted 23 March 2011 - 06:34 PM
Otharus, on 23 March 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:
I did not study that Klaas Kolyn rhimechronical yet.
I would not be surprised if that turns out to be authentic too.

Browsing through this 'Klaas Kolyn Chronical', I find some interesting material.
One could find more 'similarities' with OLB than the ones Knul mentioned, but one could also find many differences.
All depends on what wants to be proven. Just like with the Frisian so-called 'fantastic' historiography, part is based on facts, part on fantasy. It's a terrible shame that everything has always been dismissed because a part is not understood and it contains a few fragments of allegory (dragons and mermaids). It seems obvious that the roots for this ridiculing the 'unofficial' history are political.

It looks like this KK-chronical too must have some roots in true history, but every 'historian' and copyist, just like the ones who compiled (and copied) the OLB, has his/ her motives. I have read enough K(n)ul to see that his way of reasoning has some major flaws. I don't trust his conclusions.

It's late, I'm tired, but her's a few fragments of KK.

[16]Toe de Nedergouwen waren
Van de wateren overlopen

When the Nethermarks were
flooded by waters

[19]Gaulen en Spangen ave te lopen

Golen/ Golar! and ...

[138]Al die gouen heten Neêrsassen.
Tot zi van ti wilde Vrisen
Harde geklopt na wych verlisen,
Wiltenborch haben begeven,
Ende zunt over ade getreven.
Zo das 't lant hi[er] al te zamen
Namaels hite Frieslant by name.

All those marks were called 'Nethersaxonia'.
Till they by the wild Vrisen (Frisians)
... after some losses,
Wiltenborch [!] ...,
...
So that the land alltogether here
afterwards was called Frieslant.

[189] Tot di Gaulen overgingen
En de Francken naem ontfingen.
Till the Golar went over
and received the name Franks.

### Posted 23 March 2011 - 06:55 PM
Abramelin, on 23 March 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:
I found the site (I googled a sentence of your quote): http://www.klaaskoli...stvanloon.html.
Is it of any use here?

I wonder if there's a translation around...
Would be interesting for bloody sure. (I start to sound like you LOL)

Quote
And what do you think about what I said about Godried the Witking?

The one from the 9th century AD may even be named after the old (the REALLY old) Godfried.
(Just like Ocko van Scharle may have been named (directly or indirectly) AFTER Okke Oera Linda and Beda/ st.Bede after Beden from OLB.)

### Posted 24 March 2011 - 05:58 AM
Alewyn, on 23 March 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:
"Witkonig" in the OLB means "Wise king" as "wit" in English meaning, inter alia, "intelligence".

See also OLB's "wis" meaning "wise" in English or "wischap" in OLB meaning "wisdom". Hence our present day term "Wetenschap" (Afrikaans: "Wetenskap") or English "Science".

I would therefore guess that a "witkonig" was a type of academic (professor?), philosopher or sage.

Interesting theory, Alewyn, but I don't think it's correct.
Here's what I found:
===>>>> see reading exercises

Footnotes Jensma:
( * ) King - the wetking or seaking or viking is meant; see #5 of these laws.
( ** ) Wetking (Dutch: natkoning) - Etymology of 'viking', that would stem from the OLB-language and actually mean 'king of the wet'; a combination of:
1) English 'wet' (Dutch: nat), and/or Northfrisian 'wiet' (English: wet)
2) English 'king' (Dutch: koning)
This etymology may have been inspired by the Oldfrisian 'Witsing' = Norman, Viking
( *** ) Wetking - Seaking or viking
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I thinks this proves clearly that, according to OLB,
the etymology of Viking = Witking = Wetking = Waterking or Seaking.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It is also clear that in OLB the meaning of both SÉKENING and WITKÉNING or WITKING is leader of the sea-army or trading fleet, different from the later use of the word "viking", where it is no longer only the leader. Also, "kening" or "king" is not the same as our "king" as they had this position only for a limited period.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
The more common word used in OLB for seaking is "SÉKENING".
Would there have been a difference in use?
===>>>> see reading exercises

### Posted 24 March 2011 - 06:56 AM
The Puzzler, on 24 March 2011 - 02:29 AM, said:
Claudius Ptolemy located the Sicambri, together with the Bructeri Minores, at the most northern part of the Rhine and south of the Frisians who inhabit the coast north of the river. Strabo located the Sicambri next to the Menapii, “who dwell on both sides of the river Rhine near its mouth, in marshes and woods. It is opposite to these Menapii that the Sicambri are situated". So the Sicambri must have lived at the lower Rhine in what is now called the Netherlands.

Zeekampers † (naval men),
Sêkâmpar, in Latin Sicambri.

This reminded me of something else; the etymology of "marsaci".

Could it be OLB's "Mârsâta", which i.m.o. would rather be marsh-dwellers, than lake-dwellers?

Marsaci
history of Low Countries (in history of Low Countries: The Roman period)
...arrival of the Romans brought about a number of movements: the Batavi came to the area of the lower reaches of the Rhine, the Canninefates to the western coastal area of the mouth of the Rhine, the Marsaci to the islands of Zeeland, the Toxandri to the Campine (Kempenland), the Cugerni to the Xanten district, and the Tungri to part of the area originally inhabited by the Eburones.
http://www.britannic.../366437/Marsaci

### Posted 24 March 2011 - 07:12 AM
Alewyn, on 23 March 2011 - 10:03 PM, said:
The Book of Adela's followers was written long before the Vikings. There is absolutely no connection between Viking and Witkonig

I think the connection may be mostly etymological.

The vikings saw themselves and/or were seen as heroes of the sea.

Similarly, the tribal name Sicambri started as Sekampar (sea-warriors), Heruli started as Herljud (army people), Frisians started as Fryas (free people or Frya's people) etcetera. Language gradually evolves and words get (slightly or sometimes radical) different meanings.

OLB has so many plausible explanations for words, personal names and toponyms that this alone ( I mean all of them together) could serve as proof that it must be authentic. Every word has an origin, they are not made up at random. OLB often has better, more credible explanations than the existing etymology.

### Posted 24 March 2011 - 07:15 AM
The Puzzler, on 24 March 2011 - 07:08 AM, said:
Yes.
Landzaten (natives of the land), Marzaten * (natives of the fens), and Woud or Hout zaten (natives of the woods).
Then:

The Fens, also known as the Fenland(s), are a naturally marshy region in eastern England. Most of the fens were drained several centuries ago, resulting in a flat, damp, low-lying agricultural region.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fens

Interesting!
In Dutch we have the related words:

Ven = mere (undeep lake)
Veen = bog

### Posted 24 March 2011 - 10:01 AM
Alewyn, on 24 March 2011 - 09:34 AM, said:
Thanks Otharus. You have convinced me that a Witking and a Seaking are the same.
It also seams quite plausible that Viking could be a derivative of Witkening

That was my pleasure. Thank you for the confirmation.

I'm still thinking about the connection between WITSKIP (wisdom) and WITKING as I believe there is one, somehow...

English: wet / water / know (have wisdom)/ wisdom / fish / white
Norwegian: våt / vann / vet / visdom / fisk / hvit
Swedish: våt / vatten / veta, veten / visdom / fisk / vit
Danish: våd / vand / viden / visdom / fisk / hvid
German: nass / Wasser / wissen / Weisheit / Fisch / Weiß
Dutch: nat / water / weten / wijsheid / vis/ wit

### Posted 24 March 2011 - 02:33 PM
The Puzzler, on 24 March 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:
See my post above, I respect your efforts but think it actually might say as I said - the All-Seeing/All-Knowing King - the Sea-King Godfried the Old....?

This time I'll only give the English version.
(Sandbach p.75)
"Wodin, the eldest, lived at Lumkamakia, near the Eemude, in Oost-
flyland, with his parents. He had once commanded troops.
Tennis and Inka were naval warriors, and were just then
staying with their father at Aldergamude. When the
young warriors had assembled together, they chose Wodin
to be their leader or king, and the naval force chose Teu-
nis for their sea-king and Inka for their admiral."

With your reasoning it might as well mean White-king as "wit" in Dutch means white.
(Did you read that "wiet" in North-Frisian means water?)

### Posted 24 March 2011 - 03:05 PM
The Puzzler, on 24 March 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:
With your reasoning it might as well mean White-king as "wit" in Dutch means white.

Actually, the word may have already been ambiguous at that time, since WITSKIP indeed meant wisdom and WITTE meant white.

White and wit (as in wise) may be related like this:

seeing things white = bright = light or clear

But if indeed the word evolved into Viking, which seems obvious, the association with the sea (wet water) makes most sense.

Masters, rulers of the seas.

### Posted 24 March 2011 - 03:25 PM
The Puzzler, on 24 March 2011 - 03:16 PM, said:
The sea-king, the sea-king Godfried.

No, it's the knowing (wita) King, the Sea King Godfried.

No, you don't read it properly.
Again (made more simple):

Quote
THER WITKÉNING. THÀT IS SÉKÉNING. GODFRÉIATH THENE ALDA
De Witkoning, dat is Zeekoning, Godfried de oude
The Witkening, that is SeaKening, Godfried the Old

The Witking (that means Seaking) Godfried the Old.
OLB uses this construction many times to explain how words are synonyms.

### Posted 25 March 2011 - 06:52 AM
Alewyn, on 09 March 2011 - 06:28 AM, said:
If there is one quote from the OLB that would make me doubt the authenticity of the OLB, it is the following (my translation):

“They must be told of the heroes, of their galant deeds and distant sea voyages. All these stories must be told by the hearth and in the field, wherever it may be, both the joy and the sorrow. If men is to become steadfast in the brain and the heart, then all teaching about this must stream from your wives and your daughters.”

I find it difficult to believe that they knew the function of the brain 2500 years ago, let alone the difference between knowledge (the brain) and emotions (the heart).

The brain is mentioned six times in the OLB.
Its spelling seems to have evolved from BRYN into BRÉIN.
I suspect an etymological relation with the Dutch words "brij" (porridge), "breien" (to knit) and maybe even the french soft cheese "brie".
====>>>> see reading exercises
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Many people believe that in ancient times, people were less intelligent or had less knowledge.
But if one imagines how Roman emperors and later the Vatican (again Rome) had whole libraries full of ancient knowledge burnt and destroyed (and stolen?), it's easy to see that this is not true. (Many of them also burnt by accident of course.)

Knowledge is indeed power, so when emperors and religious leaders wanted to have monopoly and dominate peoples (that is: make them into their slaves), one of their tactics was to take away peoples sources of it. When one has control of what people know, one has (more) control of what they think and thus, (more control) of what they will do.

I agree with Abramelin that it's not so hard to imagine that ancient cultures had a word for it and related it to thinking.

Since some of the most obvious organs and senses we use to process and exchange information; the eyes, ears, nose, tongue and lips are all located in the head, it's quite obvious, that the organ 'in charge' is the brain.

### Posted 25 March 2011 - 07:06 AM
Abramelin, on 24 March 2011 - 03:31 PM, said:
But it's interesting the Frisan word for Viking is Witsing.

I think this is one of the most important clues.

Quote
And the 'wit' in 'witkening'/'witkoning'/'witking' could simply mean white, and nothing to do with water at all.

it does not have to be either/ or.
Like I said, it may very well have been ambiguous.
They loved that and we still do.
From the context I gave in my post with all the quotes, it became obvious that the word was used as a synonym of Seaking.

Quote
And here is how Frya is being described:

Frya. Was wit lik snêi bij-t môrnerâd ånd thåt blâw hjrar ôgnum wn-et jeta thêre rêinbôge of.

"Frya was white.."

No:
Frya. Was wit lik snêi bij-t môrnerâd ånd thåt blâw hjrar ôgnum wn-et jeta thêre rêinbôge of.

White like snow at morning-red (before sunrise) = pinkish.

Quote
For some time today I have googled "white king", and aside from a zillion chess hits, I found only one line of kings with the nickname "White", and they were all Vikings.

One of them is Olav the White, King of Dublin.

One of the best movies I have ever seen:
The White Viking (1991), Hvíti víkingurinn (original title), by Hrafn Gunnlaugsson (Iceland)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102081/

If I remember it correctly, in this movie, that describes the time of the Christenings, the vikings who believed that Jesus Christ was a reincarnation of Odin called him the "White Christ".

### Posted 25 March 2011 - 07:11 AM
The Puzzler, on 24 March 2011 - 03:49 PM, said:
The Witkoning—that is, the Sea-king Godfried the Old
I still think it works,
The All Knowing King, that is, Sea-King Godfried the Old.

You are moving the comma's (dots in the manuscript).
by doing that, you can manipulate and change any text.
The correct sentence is:
The Witking, that is Seaking, Godfried the Old

### Posted 26 March 2011 - 02:33 AM
Just thinking aloud:

1. the first meaning of WIT = white (dutch: wit, german: weiss)
[examples p.9/19: "FRYA. WAS WIT LIK SNÉI" = Frya was white like snow
p.96/2: "NAVT MITH PÀRLUM. HWAND HJRA TUSKAR SEND WITTER"
p.125/24: "BLÁWA ÁGON MITH WIT HÉR"
p.157/16: "RÁDA BRUNA ÀND WITA (...) BITON HJARA HÉRE MITH SJALKWÉTER WIT"
p.206/19: "WITTE WYVA ÀND ULDERMANKES"]

2. in the combination WITSKIP, it has an association with knowing or seeing; with wit or wisdom (dutch: wetenschap or wijsheid, german: wissenshaft or weissheit)
[example p.4/10: "TACH IS HJA FOL WITSKIP ÀND KLARSYAN"]
But it is also used seperate in the meaning of knowledge.
[p.62/25: "MIN.ERVA NÉDE THÉR NÉN WIT FON"; dutch: "Minerva had daar geen weet van"]
Now WIT has become ambiguos: white and wit (wise)

3. in the combination WITKENING or WITKING, it has become even more ambiguous (more associations):
Dutch: witkoning (white-king), weetkoning (wise-king), weterkoning (water-king)
German: weisskonig (white-king AND wise-king!), wasserkonig (waterking)
English: whiteking, witking, wetking
Through the context in which the word WITKENING and WITKING is used, it becomes clear that although he may have been white and wise (the original meanings), most important was that he was commander (king) of the fleet, whether it was a warfleet or a trading fleet. Therefore, WITKING became synonymus with SEEKING.
Best example: p.45/17: "THER WITKÉNING. THÀT IS SÉKÉNING"

Now think of the latin word VIDERE = to see or to know (video = I see). The root is: VID.

VIDKING = SEEKING = SEAKING

SIA or SJA in OLB means to see (dutch: zien, german: sehen)

[example p.11/31: "J HÀWED SJAN" = you have seen]

Sea is in dutch "zee" (meaning ocean) and in german "See" (meaning lake).

Noteworthy:
[p.150/9: "AN BYDE SIDA THÉRE HAVES.MVDE IS ÉNE WITHBURCH BVWED"]

### Posted 26 March 2011 - 02:45 AM

I know about the year 0 thing (that there is none); this is just to have a rough overview. And it's not complete or finished yet, still it may be of use to some of you.

### Posted 26 March 2011 - 04:47 AM
Abramelin, on 25 March 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:
And it was me who posted about a Yule wheel used as a year-calendar, but I'm not sure it's nothing but a recent Pagan invention

Is it a co-incidence that our clock has 12 hours, like our year has 12 months?

- And that we used to count by dozen? (dutch: dozijn = 12)
- And that in the OLB creation myth the 3 sisters were born after the 12th Jolfeast and each had 12 suns and 12 daughters? (every Joltime a twin)
- The Mother of Texland should have 3 x 12 fast horses (Burch-law #12)
- Common law #8: villages may raise market-taxes to a maximum of a 12th part of the buying prize.
- laws for war and defence #2: from age 12 on, boys will be trained with weapons.
- Laws for navigators #5: The Witking recieves 12 'manparts' of the profit of a trading journey.
- Before the big flood, the 'Fryans' had 12 big rivers ("big sweetwater streams").
- Tunis came back from Sidon with a fleet of 12 ships full of trading treasures.
- Geert and her Geertmen left Athenia with 7 x 12 ships.
- Ulysos cam after no Krekalander had been seen in Almanland for 12 years.
- On the day of celebration, just before Adela was murdered, 12 girls with 12 lambs and 12 boys with 12 calves passed her door.
- The canal around Appolanja's burch was 12 feet wide.
- A day has 2 x 12 "solar hours", different from "seamans hours".
- Appolanja's burch had 12 "emergency houses" where people from the area could come and stay in time of crisis.
- Jes-os from Kashmir died after having travelled around for 12 years.

There is no other number in OLB that is used so frequently and so symbolically as 3x2x2 = 3x4 = 6x2 = 12.

### Posted 26 March 2011 - 06:38 AM
Alewyn, on 26 March 2011 - 05:07 AM, said:
Now think about " The Witking, that is, Sea King Godfreiath the Old"

No, that is misplacing the comma again, to change the meaning.

The text says:
"The Witking, that is Sea King, Godfreiath the Old"
==>> witking = seaking (seeking)

### Posted 26 March 2011 - 06:42 AM
Alewyn, on 26 March 2011 - 05:07 AM, said:
Remember he was called "Godfreiath the Old".

If you reread the quotes I collected, you'll see that those Witkings were about commanding (trading or army) fleets. In one of them Witking is mentioned together with Skelta-bi-nacht.

Tunis was not that old when he was chosen to be Seaking, with Inka as his Skelta-bi-ther-nacht.

They were going to win a war in Skenland, not to receive a Nobel Prize.

### Posted 26 March 2011 - 10:08 AM
Otharus, on 26 March 2011 - 04:47 AM, said:
There is no other number in OLB that is used so frequently and so symbolically as 3x2x2 = 3x4 = 6x2 = 12.

maybe not as symbolic, but more frequent of course:
The number three ...
Spelling of "three"-related words in OLB
(Note the many different spellings, sometimes even on one page.)
===>>>> see reading exercises
Are there other sources that suggest a relation?

### Posted 26 March 2011 - 04:14 PM
The Puzzler, on 26 March 2011 - 10:19 AM, said:
?? Suggest a relation? To what...Druids to the number 3?
Or do you mean between Druid and Triuwenden?
If it's the 2nd one, I gave one for that...
dru - steakfast like an oak - truthfullness, steady, loyal, true, compared to an old oak.

I just wondered because the word for 3 must be very old since it's the same in so many languages.

D or TH or T
R
E or EE or I or IE or EI etc.

Only English and the Scandinavian languages use a similar sounding word for "tree".

Since one of the spellings in OLB for 3 is THRJU or THRIU (either U or V), and TH is close to both T and D, I thought it might be relatable to the name the sailors used: "TRJV.WENDNE".

I heard Michael Tsarion mention a possible etymological link between druid and three once in a video. The Jol is made up of 6 perfect triangles within a circle, as Alewyn also showed in his book. If 12 and 6 were special numbers to the Fryans, then surely 3 should have been even more so. It's obviously a magical shape and number. That gave me the idea.

- - - - - -
three - english
tre - norwegian, swedish, danish, italian, albanian
??? - macedonian, russian, serbian, ukrainian
drei - german
trei - romanian
três - portuguese
tres - spanish, catalan, galician
t?e?? - greek
drie - dutch, flemmish, afrikaans
tri - czech
tri - croatian, slovak, slovanian
trí - irish
þrír - icelandic
tris - latvian, lithuanian
trois french
trzy - polish
- - - - - - - - - - -
tree - english
tré - icelandic
treet - norwegian
träd - swedish
træ - danish

boom - dutch
baum - german

arbre - french

### Posted 26 March 2011 - 04:18 PM
Flashbangwollap, on 26 March 2011 - 01:10 PM, said:
Here's a long shot: I wonder if the Ambr(ones) is anything to do with the Amber trade (The Amber-ones) and not as the Wiki says related to Greek "Amphi" or Latin "Ambi"

Yes it looks too simple but why not?

Yes Flash, good find.
A link with amber makes much more sense than one with ambi or amphi.

### Posted 26 March 2011 - 04:27 PM
Otharus, on 26 March 2011 - 04:14 PM, said:
I heard Michael Tsarion mention a possible etymological link between druid and three once in a video. The Jol is made up of 6 perfect triangles within a circle, as Alewyn also showed in his book. If 12 and 6 were special numbers to the Fryans, then surely 3 should have been even more so. It's obviously a magical shape and number. That gave me the idea.

I found the fragment:

"Like the later Freemasons, who appropriated their symbolic tropes, the ancient Druids venerated the number three and tripartite metaphysical principles. From the earliest days of the Irish the custom was for three kings to simultaneously govern. This is a phenomenon we find employed in Egypt where each of the fourteen or more nomes, or sacred cities, along the Nile were ruled over by a trinity of gods.?"

— Michael Tsarion; The Irish Origins of Civilization, Volume 1
http://www.truthcont...com/node/druids

### Posted 27 March 2011 - 06:38 AM
Nice that you all have such vivid imaginations, but I think you should have a better read before we continue this timewaste, and use your sense of logic, if you have it.

Otharus, on 24 March 2011 - 05:58 AM, said:
[OLB original p.27-28] ÉWA FARA STJURAR (Laws for the navigators)
5. KVMTH THÉR FLÁTE TO HONK ÀND SIN THÉR BÁTA.
SÁ MOTON THA STJURAR THÉR.OF EN THRIMENE HÀVA.
ALTHUS TO DÉLANDE.
THI WITKÉNING TWILF MÔNIS DÉLA. (...)
[Ottema/Sandbach p.41]
5. Komt de vloot weder thuis, en zijn er baten,
dan moeten de zeelieden daarvan een derde deel hebben,
aldus te deelen.
De ??? twaalf mansdeelen, (...)
5. If the fleet returns with profits,
the sailors may divide one-third among themselves
in the following manner:
The ??? twelve portions, (...)

[OLB original p.45]
THER WITKÉNING. THÀT IS SÉKÉNING. GODFRÉIATH THENE ALDA
[Ottema/Sandbach p.65]
De ???, dat is Zeekoning, Godfried de oude
The ???, that is Sea-King Godfried the Old

[OLB original p.74]
THI WÉT.KING THÉRA THYRJAR BROCH ALGADUR THRUCH THA STRÉTE
THÉR VNDER THISSE TIDA VPPA THA RÁDE SÉ UT HLIP
[Ottema/Sandbach p.105]
De ??? der Thyriers bracht allen te zamen door de straat,
die in deze tijden op de Roode zee uitliep
The ??? of the Tyrians brought them altogether through the strait
which at that time ran into the Red Sea

[OLB original p.101]
THA SKILDA THÉR WITKING ÀND THÉRA SKOLTA BI THA NACHTUM WÉRON MITH GOLD OMBORAD.
[Ottema/Sandbach p.153]
De schilden van den ??? en den schout bij nacht waren met goud omboord.
The shields of the ??? and the admiral were bordered with gold.

Context: Navigators, sailors, fleet, seaking, Red Sea, admiral ('shield-by night').

Nowhere is suggested that WIT means wise here, although of course 'WITKINGS', who had the command of a whole fleet, would not have been stupid. Although the original meaning may have been know-king or see-king, and although the meaning may have been ambiguous, in OLB the main meaning obviously is sea-king, which would also be a perfectly reasonable meaning for the later word VIKING.

### Posted 27 March 2011 - 06:42 AM
Abramelin, on 26 March 2011 - 09:14 PM, said:
Was our dear Godfried the Old a Wise King? Was he Wodan/Odin? What do we know about him, anyway? Not much, eh?
He is just mentioned ONCE.

My post was not about him. You missed the whole point:
Now think of the latin word VIDERE = to see or to know (video = I see).
The root is: VID.

VIDKING = SEEKING = SEAKING

### Posted 27 March 2011 - 06:46 AM
The Puzzler, on 26 March 2011 - 05:08 PM, said:
Truth - truiwi - drud, druid - speakers of truth.
It would mean that PIE dru as tree would also have to equate to three.
Tree is from deru -oak - dru - tree
So tree and true can both spring from deru the etymology is saying.
Tree and truth have a very similar background connection and I can see some versions of it sound like 3.

This reminds me of something I once heard, that an old word for oak is ASK, and that people went there to "ask" for advise.

### Posted 27 March 2011 - 07:08 AM
The Puzzler, on 27 March 2011 - 05:31 AM, said:
Viking, I think in Norse is Vik ing - that is, inlet, bay, cove or creek dwellers.
...
Anglo-Frisian wic/wik was a hamlet or town, can go through to harbour.

From earlier Middle English wik, wich (“village, hamlet, town”); from Old English wic (“dwelling place, abode”); Germanic borrowing from Latin vicus (“village, estate”) (see vicinity). Came to mean “dairy farm” around 13th-14th century (e.g. Gatwick “Goat-farm”). Compare cognates: Old High German wîch, wih (“village”), German Weichbild (“municipal area”), Dutch wijk (“quarter, district”), Ancient Greek ????? (oikos, “house”), Old Frisian wik, Old Saxon wic (“village”).

Present in compounds (meaning “village”, “jurisdiction”, or “harbour”), as, bailiwick, Warwick, Greenwick, Southwick, Hampton Wick, etc., also -wich.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wick

This VIK/WIK must be related to WIKA(?)

Dutch: "wijken" (also used in "ontwijken" en "afwijken"); to dodge, escape?

(how much I miss having my dictionaries at hand)

In dutch your vik-ing would be "wijking" which would mean something like a coward who dodges and avoids conflicts.

It is most unlikely that the word Viking would be associated to this VIK or WIK.

### Posted 27 March 2011 - 07:24 PM
Some etymologies, synonyms and explanations in the OLB: "X = Y"

The Oera-Lindas or Over-de-Lindens (other modern versions of this name are: Verlinden, Van-der-Linden, Ter-Linden etc.) who assembled the manuscript, had access to information that was under threat of getting lost. They sometimes knew the (original) meaning of words and they knew that if they would not copy or add this information, future generations would no longer understand all of the text.

I have made a list of examples where this sort of information is given in the common construction "..., that is ..." (or: "X = Y").

By doing this I discovered that much of this information was lost in translation, specially in the English version by Sandbach. (This was a translation not straight from the original, but from Ottema's Dutch translation.)

In fragment nrs. 4, 5, 6, 10, 13, 14, 16 and 17a below, Sandbach has completely ignored the "X = Y" construction!

This is one of the reasons why it's so much more interesting to read the original.

I even dare say that it's impossible to really understand the true value of the OLB by only reading a translation.

==>>> see reading exercises

### Posted 28 March 2011 - 04:27 AM
"Tree", "Boom", "Baum" in OLB.

The following list shows that the Fryans used two different words for our source of wood, the material that ships (and most houses) used to be built of (see fragment 13!).

What is fascinating, is that the one (TRE or THRE) is now used in England and Scandinavia - and NOT in Germany and the Netherlands, incl. Flanders, while the other (BAM or BOM) is used in Germany and the Netherlands ("Baum" resp. "boom") - and NOT in England and Scandinavia.

Fragments nr. 2 and 6 suggest that the original difference between the two words was that BAM/ BOM was a big (real) tree, while TRE/ THRE was more like a shrub, branch or twig, something more easily bendable.

Not surprisingly, the Linda or Linde (Tilia) tree is also mentioned (fragments 7, 8, 9 and 15).
To my disappointment, Sandbach has translated them into "lime-trees".
==>>> see reading exercises

### Posted 28 March 2011 - 05:26 AM
Ambiguous "WOOD": timber, forest and fury???

The following shows how "wood" (in OLB: "WOD") was ambiguous and must have been the root of the name "WODIN".

In fragments 1 and 4, "WOD" refers to wood/ forest (Dutch: woud, German: Wald).

In fragments 6, 9, 10, 11 and 12, it means wood/ timber (Dutch: hout, German: Holtz).

In fragments 2, 3, 5, 7 and 8, the word WODIN or WODAN (that are most probably derived from WOD) refers to anger, rage or fury (Dutch: woede, German: Wut)

{Note: This might also help to prove that Wodin/ Wodan is (originally) a different name/ character than Odin/ Odr, who in Nordic mythology and poetry seems to have more associations with the otter and might be related to the mysterious OLB word "OD".}

==>>> see reading exercises

### Posted 28 March 2011 - 03:47 PM
In the WITKENING/ WITKING/ SEAKENING/ SEAKING discussion, it's also relevant to remember that KÉNING/ KÀNING is twice suggested to have been synonymous with HÉRMAN = warlord or army commander, so very different from our understanding of the word King (Dutch: Koning):

(page 22)
SÁ MÉI HI HÉLPA EN HÉRMAN JEFTHA KÉNING TO KJASANE

(page 53)
KÉRON HJA WODIN TO HJARA HÉRMAN JEFTA KÀNING UT

### Posted 28 March 2011 - 04:04 PM
The Puzzler, on 28 March 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:
Wisgrych is used in the OLB so we know wis is the word they are using for wise so wit for wise seems to not fit with the rest of the language (I think).

WITSKIP = wisdom (dutch: wetenschap or wijsheid)

I don't understand how you people seem to think a word has to have one meaning only.

Think ambiguity and let the context explain what meaning will have been meant in the particular fragment. Also, it's nice that we can all have our own read of it, as we all have a different field of reference and imagination.

Moving on to something more interesting now...

### Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:34 PM
The Puzzler, on 27 March 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:
I cannot seem to pair WET with WIT, so unless it's a spelling error, it just doesn't seem to work.

Snow, clouds, seafoam; all wet AND white
To see something in clear bright (white) light = to know/ to be wise (to be enlightened)

### Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:37 PM
The Puzzler, on 28 March 2011 - 05:39 AM, said:
WOOD TO FURY TO ODIN (Wodin) !

Wodin an Odin are usually thought to have been the same, but I don't think that's correct.

Otharus, on 28 March 2011 - 05:26 AM, said:
This might also help to prove that Wodin/ Wodan is (originally) a different name/ character than Odin/ Odr, who in Nordic mythology and poetry seems to have more associations with the associations with the otter and might be related to the mysterious OLB word "OD".

### Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:38 PM
The Puzzler, on 28 March 2011 - 08:02 AM, said:
Frikko is Freyr, that is Hermes in Greek, that is Mercury. ...
It would seem that name Freyr could be connected to the word Fryan - which apparently comes from Frya. So who is Freyja? Her name means lady.
Is Frya Freyja does anyone think or is she Frigg? Or neither?

Various Nordic sources suggest Frey and Freya were twins. Their parents Njord and Nerthus were also brother and sister...

I believe that OLB's cration myth is deliberately lying about Frya's past. Frey was a major deity in Scandinavia, but not in 'Fryasland'.

I don't believe Frey = Hermes = Mercurius; they may have had a similar function or represented the same archetype though.

What are your sources for the Frey/ Frikko information

### Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:42 PM
Abramelin, on 28 March 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:
The original doesn't use commas, only points and underscores:

Ther Witkêning. thaet is Sêkêning. God-
frêiath. thene alda. heth thêr asvndergana
telnomar fon mâkad fâr stand aend
rvnskrift bêde.

And as you see, there is also a point between "Godfrêiath" and "thene alda", so it's:
Their Witkening.that is Seakening.Godfried.the old

Points are used in OLB to either connect to words (we use a - for that), to replace something that's left out (the ' in "that's") or to make a pause while reading (we use either , . or ; : ). The context almost always makes it perfectly clear what is meant. The authors leave out points (comma's) where they would have been right, but when they place them they usually add them for a good reason.

It's not that this Godfreiath was old, but there must have been a younger (later) Seaking Godfreiath too. We use senior and junior for that.

A most correct translation would be:
"Their Witkening, that is Seakening, Godfried, the old."

### Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:53 PM
To complete my special about trees, wood and forests, here's another list of fragments with:

WALD/ WOD = wood/ forest (dutch: woud/ bos; german: Wald)

Note that in fragment #9 "LINDA.WALD" is translated into "Linda's wood", while in fragment #12 exactly the same word is translated into "wood of lime-trees".

Also note fragment #16: "WALDA THÉRA LINDA WRDA", translated as "forests of the Lindaoorden".

This is what the 'Over de Linden'/ 'Oera Linda' family (and hence the book) is named after, not the river, which is mentioned nowhere in the whole manuscript!

==>>> see reading exercises

### Posted 29 March 2011 - 05:10 PM
The Puzzler, on 29 March 2011 - 04:28 PM, said:
I don't care that much about the lime trees, I believe it has been translated right - but I'd be interested on more info on Frya/Freya and what anyone makes of those etymologies I gave - Gothic freis is free, sounds alot like Friesland, or Frisians, like the word has come from Gothic.

Bed for me but has anyone got anything interesting on the main lady herself?

I still think FRY originally just means "free", but here's the answer of a Norwegian specialist Maria Kvilhaug (20-1-2011):

It is an interesting question. Of course, language is always changing, so words will aquire new meanings over time. In contemporary Norwegian, "feig", for example, means "cowardly", whereas in old Norse times, it just meant "dying". It seems strange but with a little imagination one can try to envision how a word over several centuries can change meaning though indirect associations.

The names Freyr/Freya in old Norse during the Viking Age meant Lord/Lady Sovereign and were titles, derived from the older Germanic words Frauja/Fraujin of the same meaning (lord/lady).

However, the words are related to many other words in the Germanic languages, such as:

"free" (English)
"fri" (modern Scandinavian etc, meaning "free")
"fria" (old Norse: to love, to make love, to woo, propose, desire)
"fri" (modern Scandinavian, meaning to woo/propose)
"frodr"(old Norse: wise, wisdom)
"frodig" (Scandinavian; voluptous, fertile, abundant)
"frø" (Norwegian "seed")
"fryd" (Scandinavian: "joy")
"fridr" (old Norse: "peace")
"fred" (Norwegian/Danish: "peace")
"frid" (Swedish: "peace")
"frei" (German: "free")
"frukt" (Scandinavian: "fruit"

and also to the old Frisian word for "free". Somehow, the meanings of freedom, wisdom, sovereignty, love, fertility, seeds , peace and joy are all related in the association-realm of our ancestors. I am not sure which meaning was the "original", the oldest one.

One should be very careful about using Snorri as a historical source - there is no knowing what he knew and what he just made up. That the names Freyr and Freya are titles is an idea that is generally acknowledged and very probable too, if you ask me, and the word is ancient (hence the old "frauja" dating very far back in time). Of course it is possible that the lord and lady of the houses were named after the gods but it is more, or at least just as, sensible to think that they are titles. What is interesting is how the words for sovereignty related to the Vanir gods are related to words for wisdom, love, freedom, peace and abundance...

There are other Scandinavian words for sovereignty that reflect a different attitude, such as "herre" ("lord") which is derived from "herja", which basically mean to bully, harass and pillage someone.
Or the word Reginn, which means ruler, and simply means to control. Both are only applied to males! The latter word is certainly indo-European in origin. I am not sure where the other words are derived from.

The gods Freyr and Freya of the Vanir signify in my mind a different kind of attitude to sovereignty among an earlier people that the Vanir represent, possibly the Neolithic/Megalithic people that were in Northern Europe before the battle-axe people started their invasions.

######

Posted 30 March 2011 - 04:30 AM
The Puzzler, on 29 March 2011 - 05:14 PM, said:
Before I go - OD, odr - Odin = Wodin - fury, excitement.
OD?

No, Odin =/= Wodin

1) Root of the name Wodin is WOD:

Otharus, on 28 March 2011 - 05:26 AM, said:
The following shows how "wood" (in OLB: "WOD") was ambiguous and must have been the root of the name "WODIN".

In fragments 1 and 4, "WOD" refers to wood/ forest (Dutch: woud, German: Wald).

In fragments 6, 9, 10, 11 and 12, it means wood/ timber (Dutch: hout, German: Holtz).

In fragments 2, 3, 5, 7 and 8, the word WODIN or WODAN (that are most probably derived from WOD) refers to anger, rage or fury (Dutch: woede, German: Wut)

1. [049/09]
THÉR TO BOPPA HÉDON WI THA NÔMA. LAND.SÁTON MÁR.SATA ÀND HOLT JEFTA WOD.SÁTA
[O+S p.71]
Besides these we had the names Landzaten (natives of the land), Marzaten (natives of the fens), and Woud or Hout zaten (natives of the woods)

2. [074/06]
BIFIRA SÉKROPS WODIN WRDE ÀND OVERS BIGVNDE
[O+S p.103]
before Cecrops became furious and changed his mind

3. [085/03]
ÉL WEL SÉIDE THENE MAGÍ MITH VRBORGNE WODIN
[O+S p.103]
Very good [well], said the Magy, swelling with [hidden] rage

4. [096/29]
THÉR HIPTH HJA NÉI.T KRÍL.WOD. GRIPT ELSNE TRÉON
[O+S p.135]
Then she ran to the Krylwood and got some elder branches

5. [104/26]
STORNE WIND KÉM TO BEK JETA WODANDER AS TO FORA
[O+S p.145]
The [storm-] wind grew stronger [came back, more raging than before]

6. [107/20]
KRÁN.BOGA. TODEKTH MITH WOD ÀND LÉTHER
[O+S p.147]
crossbows [?] covered with wood and leather

7. [120/24]
THA ALEXANDRE FORNOM
THÀT IM SÁN.E GRÁTE FLÁTE VNTFÁRA WAS.
WÀRTH ER WODIN.LIK.
TO SWÉRANDE HI SKOLDE ALLE THORPA AN LOGHA OFFERJA
JEF WI NAVT TO BEK KVMA NILDE.
[O+S p.165]
When Alexander heard
that such a large fleet had escaped him,
he became furious,
and swore that he would burn [offer] all the villages [to flames]
if we did not come back

8. [122/19]
MEN ALEXANDER WÉRE WODIN
[O+S p.167]
but Alexander was furious

9. [124/01]
TWA.HONDRED ÉLEPHANTA. THVSEND KÉMLUN.
TOLÉDEN MITH WODEN BALKUM.
RÁPUM ÀND ALLERLÉJA ARK
[O+S p.169]
200 elephants, 1000 camels,
[loaded with] a quantity of timber,
ropes, and all kinds of implements

10. [148/14]
HWAND TO STÁVEREN ÀND ALLINGEN THÀT ALDER.GÁ
THÉR WRDON THA BESTA WÉRSKÉPA MAKED.
FON HERDE ÉKEN WOD THÉR NIMMERTHE NÉN ROT AN NE KVM
[O+S p.201]
because at Stavere, [and] along the Alberga,
the best ships of war were built
of hard oak which never rots

11. [150/02]
BURCH.WÉPNE. WOD. HIRBAKEN STÉN.
TIMBER.LJUD MIRTSELÉRA ÀND SMÉDA
[O+S p.203]
weapons for wall defences, wood, [hardbaked] bricks,
carpenters, masons, and smiths

12. [198/30]
HJARA WÉPNE SEND WODEN BOGA
[O+S p.239]
Their arms are wooden bows

2) Root of the name Odin/ Odr must be "OD"

Otharus, on 17 March 2011 - 08:42 AM, said:
Otharus, on 13 October 2010 - 01:32 PM, said:
ringashjaripweron.JPG
http://picasaweb.goo...feat=directlink

"... RING AS HJA RIP WEERON KREEION HJA FRUUCHDA AND NOCHTA ANDA DRAMA.
WR.ALDA.S OD TRAD TO RA BINNA. AND NW..."

Note that there is a point (.) between "DRAMA" and "WR.ALDA.S" and that there is no point between "WR.ALDA.S" and "OD".

The translations:

Overview of the various translations of "OD":
Haat; Hatred (Ottema 1876, Sandbach 1876, Snyman 1998)
Gottes Odem; God´s breath (Wirth 1933)
Geneugte; pleasure (Overwijn 1941)
Een spits; a phallic object (Jensma 1992)
Gelukzaligheid; bliss (Jensma 2006)
Licht; light (de Heer 2008)

Jensma was probably closest after all with his translation "gelukzaligheid" (bliss).

"Under the name Ódr, Odin is described as Freya`s first man. The name means “ecstatic frenzy” and characterizes him as a personification of this side of the fertility goddess` companion. Freya is called Ód`s bedvina – “Ód`s bed-girlfriend” by the bard Einar Skulason in the year 1100 A.D."

From: "Diser, nornor, valkyrjor – Fruktbarhetskult och sakralt kungadöme i Norden" (1954) by Folke Ström, translated by Maria Kvilhaug (Dísir, norns and valkyrias – Fertility cult and sacred kingship in the North by Folke Ström ~ Chapter 3: The Great Dís, the seidr and Odin)

Source: http://www.facebook....118355794905946

### Posted 30 March 2011 - 04:06 PM
FRYA =/= FRÉJA !!!

Numbers between {...} refer to the fragments below.

Primary meaning FRÉJA: to ask (35x; 2x with G instead of J)
Dutch: vragen

FRÉGE - (he) asked {1,24}
FRÉJA - (to) ask, (the) asking, (he) asks {4,5,8,12,14,17,20,21,26,37}
FRÉJAD - (he has) asked {30}
FRÉJANDE - (to) ask {11,15,29,33,36}
FRÉJATH - (he/we/they) (have) asked {9,10,18,19,28c}
FRÉJDE - (he) asked {16}
FRÉJE - (I/he) asked {25,27ab,31ab,32,34}
FRÉJER - he asked {22}
FRÉJETH - (I have) asked {23}
FRÉJON - (they) asked {6,7}

Secondary meaning FRÉJA: to (ask or invite for) love (6x; 2x BI-)
Oldfashioned Dutch: (be-) vrijen (FRÉJAR = vrijer)

FRÉJA - (to) invite for love {3}
~ BIFRÉJAD - (he has) invited for love {35}
~ BIFRÉJANDE - (to) invite for love {28b}
FRÉJAR - lover {2,28a,29}

The word "GOD" in OLB almost always just means "good" or "perfect", but it can also mean "God".

Therefore, the name "GODFRÉJATH" (p.045/17) will have been double ambiguous:

God-asked or Good-loved

Dutch: God-(ge)vraagd or Goed-(ge)vreeën

(The meanings God-loved and good-asked are also possible, but less likely.)

This is very different from what the usual etymology for "Godfried" or "Godfrey" says: peace of God.

This also proves that GODFRÉJATH is a different name than GODFRIED, as it has a different meaning, although the latter may have evolved out of the first.

==>>> see reading exercises

### Posted 31 March 2011 - 02:54 AM
Triple amibuity of the Dutch word "VRIJ"
1) As we have seen, the Dutch words "vrijen" (to invite for love or to make love) and "vrijer" (lover) originate from the Fryan verb "FRÉJA", that mainly means to ask, and not from the word "FRY", as I thought before.
The declension of vrijen is like this:

Present
ik vrij = I make love
jij vrijt = you (sing.)
hij/zij vrijt = he/she
jullie vrijen = you (plur.)
wij vrijen = we
zij vrijen = they

Past
ik vrijde or vree = I made love
jij ,,
hij/zij ,,
jullie vrijden or vreeën
wij ,,
zij ,,

[u]Imperative mood
vrij! = make love!

2) "Vrij" in Dutch can also mean "free"; "vrijheid" means "freedom". This "vrij" originates from the Fryan adjective "FRY", which is also the root for the name "FRYA" (free one) and the word "FRYDOM" (freedom).

3) A third, less formal use of the word "vrij" in Dutch is "rather" or "quite".

Example:
hoe is het weer? vrij goed
how's the weather? rather good

This "vrij" also originates from "FRY" as in the above example, it means that the weather is not absolutely, not strictly, not 100% good, but good more in a free sense.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Examples
Ik vrij haar = I invite her to love or I make love with her (I am her lover)
==>> from "FRÉJA" (to ask)
Ik laat haar vrij = I let her (be) free
==>> from "FRY" (free)
Zij is vrij vrij = She is rather free
==>> both from "FRY"
Ik vrij vrij vrij = I make love rather freely
==>> first is from "FRÉJA", other two from "FRY"

### Posted 31 March 2011 - 03:02 AM
Abramelin, on 30 March 2011 - 07:22 PM, said:
Godféjath = Lover of God (or the Good?)
Godfried = in peace with God.

The meanings do not really differ that much in the end.

The new meanings I gave are very different.
Please read again:

Otharus, on 30 March 2011 - 04:06 PM, said:
Therefore, the name "GODFRÉJATH" (p.045/17) will have been double ambiguous:

God-asked or Good-loved (well-loved; well-made-love)
Dutch: God-(ge)vraagd or Goed-(ge)vreeën

### Posted 01 April 2011 - 08:15 AM
Feared Frisians
One of the many different old Dutch spellings of "Frisians" is "Fresen".
The following fragments show that this name may also have caused associations that were slightly different from "free".

Modern dutch:
fear = vrees
to fear = vrezen
to be feared = vreselijk

==>>> see reading exercises

### Posted 03 April 2011 - 05:47 AM
@ # $ % & * Priests!?

The OLB is rather negative about priests and other authorities.
Let's look at some of their qualifications.
(The numbers between {...} refer to the fragments below.)

BIDROGLIK = deceitful (NL: bedrieglijk) {8}
FALSK = false (NL: vals) {1,3}
FALX = ,, {4,6,7}
LÀF = cowardly (NL: laf) {5}
NÍDIG = needy, angry, jealous, spiteful (NL: nijdig) {12}
SKIN.FRÁN = pseudo-pious, hypocritical (NL: schijnvroom) {5,10}
SMÚGRIG = dirty, filthy, nasty (NL: smerig) {10}
TJOK ÀND RIK = fat and rich (NL: dik en rijk) {11}
WAN.WIS = pseudo-wise (NL: waanwijs) {4}
WL = foul (NL: vuil) {2,9}

This anti-authoritarian attitude of the OLB will have been one of the main causes for the emotional and therefore often irrational nature of the debate about it.

### Posted 03 April 2011 - 05:58 AM
Alewyn, on 02 April 2011 - 09:00 PM, said:
Talking about archaeological evidence. Here is something which may be of interest. I know Abe will say people knew about this in the 19th century, but once again, the OLB’s facts seem to have some foundation and to me this is more proof that the OLB is authentic.
(...)
My contention is that, had this been a hoax, the description of these walls would have been more specific and not just a casual reference made in passing, if you like. The hoaxer(s) would have wanted to make sure that the reader noticed this

It would also seem quite likely that the small "natural" harbour that Jon and Minerva found the first time would have been, what is today known as the "Zea Marina" or "Zea Port" near Athens. A funny name for a Greek harbour.

Good point. Very interesting indeed.

### Posted 04 April 2011 - 08:00 AM

I didn't know that southern Denmark used to be known as Frisia Borealis. The detailed maps from 1240 (reconstruction or copy?) and 1651 show well how the northern "dana marka" (from OLB) must have been low marshes indeed (nether lands). Much of what was still inhabited in 1240, was permanently flooded in 1651.

Interesting imo in relation to the Dutch Frieslands and their history of floods.

### Posted 04 April 2011 - 08:31 AM
The Saxons and the Saxanamarks

Most of the following fragments show that the Fryans and the Saxons must have been friendly together most of the time. They seem to have mixed well and many Saxons seem to have repopulated what is now Holland after the big flood of 300 BC.

One more comment relating to the WITKING / SEAKING discussion:
Fragment nr. 14 shows another use of the word WIT, here spelled as WITH.
It seems to mean sea or water here too.

A general note about Ottema's transliteration: he must have been in a hurry.
==>>> see reading exercises

Forum # 4 (mar. 7 - 22, 2011)

Posted 08 March 2011 - 06:12 AM
Abramelin, on 08 March 2011 - 04:02 AM, said:
"Pharismanes is Friso [...] The author believes that Friesians have a common ancestor, the Persian nobleman Pharismanes.

If it's true that this 'Prince of Persia' Pharismanes (Phriasman =>> Fryasman???) is indeed the Friso of the 'fantastic' Frisian historiography, that would almost be as spectacular as OLB being authentic, as it means that the Frisian 'legends' were not all that fantasy based after all (some more than others still). And this would also have implications for how OLB was received and interpreted. It will all have to be seen in a different light.

The fact that the Royal Library and NGV (etc.) are spreading this info means that they take it seriously.

I'm also very interested in the Berber/ Khabyli/ Amazigh connection. Didn't Alewyn also write about the Berber-'barbarian' link? I will dive deeper into this and will also read that King Tut-thread. If I'm silent for the next few days, it means I'm studying.

### Posted 10 March 2011 - 03:16 AM
Abramelin, on 09 March 2011 - 07:21 PM, said:
And I would like to hear from Otharus - because he said he read the next book - about a Van der Meij.
According to Menno Krul (rodinbook.nl) Van der Meij discovered that many passages in the OLB could be found back - underlined - in the books from the library of Joost Halbertsma. You know, the Halbertsma who 'had nothing to do' with the OLB, who even died before Ottema's translation was published.
Van der Meij also discovered that Halbertsma had a habit of filling up spaces in a sentence with a ~ , and the same thing can be seen in the OLB manuscript [...]
But maybe I can get Van der Meij's book at the Koninklijke Bibliotheek ("Royal Library") in The Hague because I am going to visit that library soon.

No, I didn't read van der Meij (maybe you're confused with Vandermaelle; I'm waiting for that one).

But if his proof would have been slightly convincing, why would Jensma not have taken that seriously?

As for the filling empty spaces with ~~~; I have seen that notaries in the 18th century also did that. It is to prevent others from adding text later that should not be there. This may be a very old thing that, just like elements of the language, script, metaphors etc, has survived through the ages.

Good thing you're going to check it in the KB.

That it's odd that nothing was added in 18 centuries except the two letters is a good point actually. But then again, almost everything about the OLB is odd.

### Posted 10 March 2011 - 06:40 AM
Otharus, on 28 February 2011 - 05:48 PM, said:
And no, I didn't recieve news about the paper and ink study yet.
Don't worry, you'll know only a few hours later than me.

The only news I have for now is that they suddenly want to know why exactly I am interested and that the information appears to be confidential...

Why would this information be confidential if the conclusion is that paper and ink are from the 19th century as was always believed by the ignorant mainstream?

Anyway, no need to speculate. This news can't be kept a secret for very long. Maybe they just first want to inform all the 'professionals' so they can prepare themselves and get their act together.

### jmccr8, on 10 March 2011 - 04:24 PM, said:
Hello Otharus,
I would imagine that due to the way media coverage displays information that they would like to prepare a proper report so that there will be little room for an alternative interpretaion by "jounalists" and "reporters"of various factions. I would also like to add that I have found the information and arguements presented in this thread very informative.
jmccr8

### Posted 11 March 2011 - 02:57 AM
The Puzzler, on 11 March 2011 - 12:36 AM, said:
The latest one says it was copied out 1256AD and then to copy it out after that, which could get the paper dated to mid 19th century anyway, which if the paper is new to that time, doesn't invalidate the OLB at all then.
Prior to that, it was noted that Adela's followers had copied into a book to be copied by others yes, but this version cuts off, whether anyone elses copy did we don't know.
Also, it might not have originally been cut off but when recopied maybe unfinished.

Good points Puzzler.
My thoughts were that in the first 13 centuries AD the book-keepers will have been too busy surviving wars, floods and Christening and maybe also migrating back and forth between east-, west- and south-Friesland (Flanders?), to wherever it was safest and driest at the moment.
The manuscript will have caused trouble before and will have been a secret and sacred treasure that the keepers both loved and feared.
It is not unthinkable that what happened to Ottema, also happened to earlier keepers who dove deep into the matter; that they 'lost their mind' in a way (because the paradigm is too much in conflict with the general belief system), became isolated and maybe also committed suicide.
After the 13th century people will have had more trouble reading it, because the language changed as a result of Christening (which included mass-murder).
The manuscript will have been a dangerous treasure to take out of its hiding place for most of the time. If it was discovered, not only would it have been offered to flames, but very likely also the house of the owner (if not the whole village) and the keepers and their whole family would be killed.
It is indeed a miracle that the manuscript survived.
Almost unbelievable, but less so than that it would have been created in the 19th century.
Now that would be a kind of miracle I do not believe in.


###
Some of you may find this interesting, for different reasons:
(fragments of a longer article by Maria Kvilhaug, parts made bold by me)

The Books of Old
What do we actually know about the Old Norse Pagan beliefs? Hardly anything at all, it could be argued. All the sources on this subject are written sources, written in the Latin alphabet by scholars and monks more than a century or more after the Conversion, and we just do not know to what degree “accurate” Pagan myths survived in the memory of Christian descendants across several generations. Another question is how “accurate” any myth would be in the first place, since the Pagan religion was not a dogmatic religion basing itself on the interpretation of holy books. It was a religion that based itself on magical activities and mystical experience, and myths may have varied according to who related them, when they related them, to whom, and when, and with what purpose. Poetry was a sacred art in Norse Paganism, and poets could take great liberty and apply endless variety in their use of allegory and metaphor in order to convey a message.
(...)
Many of the Edda poems that we know of were collected in a manuscript known as the Codex Regius, which resurfaced in 1647 A.D. after having been kept away from the public for a period of four centuries. An Icelandic family of farmers had been the keepers of the only comprehensive collection of Edda poems that had survived the censorship of the Medieval Church. The leather manuscript was almost complete, with the exceptions of a few pages that had been torn out in the end.
(...)
As a source to Old Norse Paganism, Snorri`s work must be used with care. He wrote the book 225 years after the Icelandic Conversion to Christianity. He based his work on his knowledge of Edda and Skaldic poetry and on the “tales of old men and women who still remember the old ways”. To what degree the old ways were remembered after more than two centuries, we do not know. Snorri was a poet himself, and the storylines of Gylfi and Aegir may have been invented by himself as they are not referred to in any older sources. Finally, Snorri had to present the myths in a manner that was acceptable to a Christian audience. When looking at the older Poetic Edda as well as the mythological allusions made in Skaldic poetry, we see that Snorri`s work is greatly adapted and modified to fit his time. He consciously left out mythological events and “facts” in his sources that were too provocative to the Church. Such gaps in his otherwise quite detailed accounts seem to scream for attention, and whenever that gap is filled by the older sources, we see that themes of initiation and spiritual transformation, as well as female teachers and leaders, are continuously left out or rewritten by Snorri. These were themes that could lead to censorship and in the worst case, book-burning, during the Medieval era. I believe this danger of persecution might be a reason why the Codex Regius with its compilation of Pagan poetry was kept hidden by mysterious Icelandic farmers until 1647 and the Age of Enlightenment. Snorri did his best to convey knowledge in a way that could be accepted by Christians - that is, by Christians who did not look further – for often enough he hid Pagan knowledge in plain sight.
(...)
The Song of the Sun is a late Edda poem that clearly conveys the struggle between Pagan and Christian worldviews and the understanding of the afterlife. In the stanza quoted, it is clearly stated that the god Njorðr has nine daughters.
If your first reaction to reading this is: “But… Njorðr has only one daughter and a son – Freyr and Freya!” I would not be surprised. It was certainly my first reaction.
The reason our reaction would be like this is because anyone who have ever read basic Norse mythology will have been conditioned to believe that Njorð`s only children are Freyr and Freya. But why are we conditioned to believe that this is a mythological “fact”?
The reason is quite simple: Snorri only wrote that Njorðr had two children by his sister, and that these were Freyr – “The Lord Sovereign”, and Freya – “The Lady Sovereign”. Thus scholars have either ignored the stanza in the Song of the Sun or dismissed it as the ramblings of a Medieval Christian who didn’t know his mythology properly.

### Posted 12 March 2011 - 01:57 AM
Alewyn, on 11 March 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:
I am sure we all agree that if the tests indicated a 19th century date, there should have been no problem.

I agree.

Quote
I would suggest that some pressure is the only approach that will produce a result.

As far as I understood, the first article is about to be published in a professional magazine for archivists. I will write my new request this weekend.

### Posted 12 March 2011 - 08:00 AM
The Puzzler, on 12 March 2011 - 04:21 AM, said:
One reason I don't think it's a hoax, why would people of Frisian descent undermine their whole history and proud morals, with NO TRUTH, just lies, doesn't seem very Frisian to me at ALL.

Well said.

### Posted 12 March 2011 - 05:40 PM
The Puzzler, on 12 March 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:
I gotta go with Otharus on 'Veritas Liberat', that is, Truth Frees and if it wasn't the Frisians we are talking about I'd say it could seem hoaxable, but this group of people have retained this moral code as part of who they are for ever and to accuse them of being liars and tale-makers seems to just go against everything they stand for...

Thank you, Puzzler.

### Posted 12 March 2011 - 05:44 PM

(pagenumbers: original manuscript/ Ottema & Sandbach)

[p.009/017]
O Finda. Tha wårth jrtha fvl blod, ånd tha hâveda thêr månneska måjadon thin bårn lik gårs hålma of.
O Finda, toen werd de aarde vol bloed, en de hoofden der menschen maaiden uwe kinderen af gelijk grashalmen.
O Finda! then the earth overflowed with blood, and your children were mown down like grass.

[p.082/115]
After im kêm en skiper fona Dênemarka, thisse nam sin swêrd ånd hif thêne Fin thrvch sina hole.
Thêrut flât swart blod ånd thêrvr swêfde-n blâwe logha.
Achter hem kwam een zeeman van de Denemarken, deze nam zijn zwaard en kloofde den Fin den kop.
Daaruit stroomde zwart bloed en daarboven zweefde eene blaauwe vlam.
A Danish soldier came behind him and clave his head in two.
There came from it a stream of black blood and a wreath of blue flame.

[p.084/117]
That blod thêra årgum skil ovir thin lif strâma, men thu ne mügth et navt to thi nêma.
Het bloed der boozen zal over uw ligchaam stroomen, maar gij moogt het niet tot u nemen.
The blood of the bad shall flow over your surface, but you must not absorb it.

[p.136/185]
Tha wrdon tha alderdrista månniska mith hjara kêdne wirgad.
Irtha heth hjara blod dronken, mith thåt blod fode hju früchda ånd nochta,
ånd alle tham thêr of êton wrdon wis.
Toen werden de stoutmoedigste menschen met hunne ketenen gewurgd.
De aarde heeft hun bloed gedronken, met dat bloed voedde zij vruchten en koorn
en al die daarvan aten werden wijs.
Then the boldest of the people were strangled in their chains.
The earth drank their blood, and that blood produced corn and fruits
that inspired with wisdom those who ate them.

[p.141/191]
Tha forsta thêr wêrhêd minna ånd rjucht tham skilun fon tha prestera wika,
blod skil strâma, men thêrut skil-et folk nye kråfta gâra.
De vorsten, die de waarheid liefhebben en het recht, die zullen van de priesters afwijken;
het bloed zal stroomen, maar daaruit zal het volk nieuwe krachten vergaderen.
The princes who love the truth and justice shall separate themselves from the priests;
blood shall flow, but from it the people will gather new strength.

[p.142/193]
Sâ fêlo lêd skil hju broda, thåt Irtha-t blod algâdvr navt drinka ne kån fon hira vrslêjana bernum.
Zoo veel leed zal hij broeden, dat Irtha het bloed niet zal kunnen drinken van hare verslagene kinderen.
It will breed so much mischief that Irtha will not be able to drink the blood of her slain children.

[p.197/237]
Tha Gola mêieath then tha nitherlêga fon hjara helpar ånd salt-âthum vppa vsa fjeldum skryva
mith-et blod, thåt ût hjara wndum drjupth.
De Golen mogen dan de nederlagen van hunne helpers en soldaten op onze velden schrijven
met het bloed dat uit hunne wonden druipt.
The Gauls may then record the defeat of their helpers and soldiers upon our fields
with the blood that flows from their wounds.

[p.201/243]
Orloch was mith kvmen ånd kirt åfter flojadon strâma blod by tha hellinga thêra bergum del.
De oorlog was mede gekomen en kort daarna vloeiden stroomen bloed bij de hellingen der bergen neder.
War had come with him, and soon blood was streaming down the slopes of the mountains.

[Ottema/Sandbach p.52-53, original p.35-36]

UTA SKRIFTA MINNO.S.

Hwanath kvmth-et kwâd thån wêi, frêjath tha prestera.
Waar komt het kwaad dan weg, vroegen de priesteren.
Where, then, does evil come from? asked the priests.

[Hellenia a.k.a. Minerva:]
Allet kwâd kvmth fon jow ånd fon thêre dvmhêd thêra månniska,
tham hjara selva fon jow fensa lêta.
Alle kwaad komt van u en van de domheid der menschen,
die zich van u laten vangen.
All the evil comes from you, and from the stupidity of the people
who let themselves be deceived by you.

Jef thin drochten thån sâ bjustre god is,
wêrvmb wêrther-et kwâd thån navt,
frêjath tha prestera.
Indien uwe godheid dan zoo bijster goed is,
waarom weert hij dan het kwaad niet,
vroegen de priesters.
If, then, your god is so exceedingly good,
why does he not turn away the bad?
asked the priests.

Hellenia andere,
Frya het vs vppe wêi brocht ånd thene kroder thåt is tid,
tham mot thåt ovrige dva.
With alle rampum is rêd ånd help to findande,
tha Wr.alda wil thåt wi hja selva soka skilon,
til thju wi sterik skile wertha ånd wis.
Nillath wi navt, thån lêt-er vsa trul ut trulla,
til thju wi skilon erfâra, hwat nêi wisa dêdum
ånd hwat nêi dvma dêdum folgath.
Hellenia antwoorde:
Frya heeft ons op den weg gebracht, en de Kroder, dat is de Tijd,
die moet het overige doen;
voor alle rampen is raad en hulp te vinden,
doch Wralda wil dat wij die zelve zullen zoeken,
opdat wij sterk zullen worden en wijs.
Willen wij niet, dan laat hij onze verbastering uitrazen,
opdat wij zullen ervaren, wat na verstandige daden
en wat na dwaze daden volgt.
Hellenia answered:
Frya has placed us here, and the carrier, that is, Time,
must do the rest.
For all calamities there is counsel and remedy to be found,
but Wr-alda wills that we should search it out ourselves,
in order that we may become strong and wise.
If we will not do that, he leaves us to our own devices,
in order that we may experience the results of wise
or foolish conduct.

Tha sêide-ne forst,
ik skolde wâna, that wêre betre, that to wêrande.
Toen zeide een vorst:
Ik zoude wanen, dat het beter ware, die te weeren.
Then a prince said,
I should think it best to submit.

Hwel müglik, andere Hellênia,
hwand than skolde tha månniska bilywa lik tåmade skêpa;
thv ånd tha prestera skolde-r than hoda willa,
men âk skêra ånd nêi thêre slacht benke fora.
Wel mogelijk, antwoordde Hellenia,
want dan zouden de menschen blijven gelijk makke schapen,
gij en de priesters zoudt hen willen hoeden,
maar ook scheren en naar de slachtbank voeren.
Very possibly, answered Hellenia;
for then men would be like sheep,
and you and the priests would take care of them,
shearing them and leading them to the shambles.

Tach alsa nil-t vs drochten navt, hi wil that wi ekkorum helpa,
men hi wil âk thåt jahweder fry sy ånd wis wrde.
Doch zoo wil het onze godheid niet, hij wil, dat wij elkander helpen,
maar hij wil ook dat iedereen vrij zij en wijs worde.
This is what our god does not desire, he desires that we should help one another,
but that all should be free and wise.

### Posted 15 March 2011 - 05:50 PM

I have finished reading one of Vandemaelle's books now, "Controversiele Geschiedschrijving" (Controversial Historiography), and although I enjoyed reading it and learned some new things, I am not overall satisfied.

One of the most important parts; the map of "Old Frisia", located in West-Flanders, with the burgs as mentioned in OLB, does not match with the description given in the manuscript.

In OLB (original p.5, Ottema/Sandbach p.11) we find:

Ast-flylând + ovir-a Linda-wrda: Ljvdgârda, Lindahêm, Stâvja
Oostflyland + over de Lindeoorden: Liudgarda, Lindahem, Stavia

hâga fenna + walda: Bvda, Manna-gârda-forda
Hoogefennen + Wouden: Buda, Manna-garda-forda

Sûdar Flylânda: Aken, Ljvdburch, Kâtsburch
Zuiderflylanden: Aken, Liudburg, Katsburg

West-flylând + Texland: Wâraburch, Mêdêasblik, Forâna, ald Fryasburch
Westflyland + Texel: Waraburg, Medeasblik, Forana, Fryasburg

tha Sjvgon êlânda: Walhallagâra
de Zeven eilanden: Walhallagara

Vandemaelle:
Liudgarda = Lugdunum on Peutinger Map, now Leulinghen
Stavia = Staliocanus from Ptolomeus, now Etaples at the Canche river
Buda = Bubers-les-Hesmont near Budberg and Buda river
Manna-garda-forda = Mannaricium on Peutinger Map, now Merville near Haezebrouck
Katsburg = Katsberg, Mont des Cats
Waraburg = Brugge
Medeasblik = Middelburg
Forana = Latin Furna or Furana, now Veurne
Walhallagara = Walcheren
Alderga = Oudenburg
Texland = Tecelia (Ptolomeus), Axles (tacitus), now Escalles near Cap-Blanc-Nez

Although some of these may be true, they can't all be, because that would mean Westflyland was located northeast of Eastflyland... (see map)

The book is chaotic, as if published in a hurry. I'm still processing it, may need a re-read.

It would be nice if a revised version could be published on the web, with better references to sources and explanations.

One thing that has become clear is that as a result of many migrations, there are several places with similar names. This can be very confusing.

(According to Vandemaelle West-Flandres used to be called Îrland and Ireland used to be called Scotia. Of course there is Normandy and Bretagne in France. Did all this confusion start with the Troyan war?!)

So, although it's tempting to read OLB's Texland as nowaday Texel, OLB's Medeasblik as Medemblik, Stavia as Stavoren etc., this may not be right at all. I believe that North-west France and West-Flandres were much more strategic points for seafaring and trading peoples to settle than in the bog-marches and floodlands of the more northern Low or Nether Lands (Dana Marka?).

North-west France and West-Flandres indeed seem to have a much older history and archaeology, but VDM's map begs for a revision. Besides, what would the area between Flandres and Denmark have been referred to?

Could the following be a clue???
(According to a footnote of Ottema, "Dêne marka" means low (nether?) lands...)

[ottema/Sanbach p.69/ original p.48]
Alle strând ånd skor hêmar fon-a Dênemarka alont thêre Såndfal nw Skelda
wrdon Stjurar, Sêkåmpar ånd Angelara hêton.
Alle strand en kustbewoners van de Denemarken af tot aan de Sandval, nu Schelde,
werden Stuurlieden, Zeekampers en Angelaren geheeten.
All those who lived [on beaches and shores] between Denmark and the Sandval, now the Scheldt,
were called Stuurlieden (pilots), Zeekampers (naval men), and Angelaren (fishermen).
[ =>> Sturii, Sicambri, Anglo(Saxon)s?]

I am now reading Vandemaelle's other book "Het Beowulf-epos", which is written in a more serious, scientific style.
And next, one by Tolkien: "The Legend of Sigurd & Gudrun".

### Posted 15 March 2011 - 08:43 PM
TOPOGRAPHY OF THE O.L.B. ~ part 1: SKÊNLAND
(pagenumbers: Ottema & Sandbach/ original manuscript)

GODA BURCH (SKÊNLAND) = GÖTEBORG (SWEDEN/ SVERIGE)

[075/053] ca. 2000 BC
Thâ wrdon kråfta sâmlath, thri pêlun fon Goda-his burch wrdon hja wither stonden, tha orloch bilêv.
Kât jefta Kâter-inne, alsa hête thju fâm, thêr burchfâm to Goda burch was.
Toen werden krachten verzameld, drie palen van Godasburgt werden zij wederstaan, de oorlog bleef.
Kat of Katerinne, zoo heette de priesteres, die burgtmaagd op Godasburgt was.
Then all the forces were assembled, and three hours from Godasburgt they were withstood, but war continued.
Kat or Katerine was the name of the priestess who was Burgtmaagd of Godasburgt.

[129/093] ca. 590 BC
Thi Mâgy tham sina Fryas svna hagja wilde stald-iri as Moder to Godaburch et Skênland,
mên hju wilde mâr, hju sêid-im thåt sahwersa hi Adela vpruma koste,
hi måster skolde wertha over êl Fryas land.
De Magy, die zijne Fryaszonen behagen wilde, stelde haar aan als Moeder op Godaburgt in Schoonland;
maar zij wilde meer, zij zeide hem dat, bijaldien hij Adela uit den weg ruimen konde,
hij meester zoude worden over geheel Fryas land.
The Magy, who wished to please his sons of Frya, appointed her mother of Godaburgt, in Schoonland;
but she wished for more, and she told him that if he could get Adela out of the way
he might become master of the whole of Frya's land.

LINDASBURCH(T) / LINDASNÔSE (WEST-SKÊNLAND) = LINDESNES (NORWAY/ NORGE)

[125/090] ca. 590 BC
Thêr heth er en burch ebuwad, Lindasburch hêten, vmbe dâna to wrekana vs lêth.
Daar heeft hij eene burgt gebouwd, Lindasburgt geheeten, om daar ons leed te wreken.
There he built a citadel named Lindasburgt, in order there to avenge our wrong.

[179/131] ca. 300 BC
Tha irtha bêterad was, kêm er en hêrtoga fon Lindasburch wêi, mit sin folk ånd en fâm,
thju fâm kêthe allomme: Thene Mâgy is skeldich an al-eth lêt thåt wi lêden håve.
Toen de aarde hersteld was, kwam er een hertog van Lindasburgt met zijn volk en eene maagd,
die alom uitriep: de Magy is schuldig aan al het leed, dat wij geleden hebben.
When the earth was composed there came a duke of Lindasburgt with his people, and one maiden
who cried everywhere, Magy is the cause of all the misery that we have suffered.

[199/147] ca. 300 BC
An tha sûdwester herne fon Skênland, thêr lêid Lindasburcht tonômath Lindasnôse,
thrvch vsa Apol stift, alsa in thit bok biskrêwen stât.
Aan de zuidwestelijke hoek van Schoonland, aldaar ligt Lindasburgt, toegenaamd Lindasneus,
door onzen Apol gesticht, gelijk in dit boek geschreven staat.
In the south-west point of Scandinavia there lies Lindasburgt, called Lindasnôse,
built by one [our] Apol, as is written in the book.

SKÊNLAND / NORTLAND = SCANDINAVIA (other)

[073/050-051] ca. 2090 BC
Skênland blôst, slâvona folka stôppath vppat thin klât, o Frya. (...)
Fon-t êne dêl nis nên tâl to vs ne kêmen,
men thåt ôre dêl fyl åfter to vs Skênland.
Skênland was sunnich bifolkath, ånd anda åfter-kâd thåt sunnichste fon al.
Schoonland bloost, slavenvolken stappen op uw kleed, o Frya. (...)
Van het eene gedeelte is geen bericht tot ons gekomen,
maar het ander gedeelte viel achter in ons Schoonland.
Schoonland was schaars bevolkt en aan de achterkant het spaarzaamst van al.
Schoonland (Scandinavia) blushes, an enslaved people tramples on your garment, Frya. (...)
Of the one no account has come to us,
but the other came in the back of our Schoonland,
which was thinly inhabited, particularly the upper part.

[075/052] ca. 2090 BC
Thêr navt flya machton wrdon vrdên, Frya wårth anhropen,
men tha Skênlandar hêdon hira rêd warlâsed.
Die niet vlieden konden, werden gedood. Frya werd aangeroepen,
maar de Schoonlanders hadden haren raad verwaarloosd.
All who could not flee away were killed. Frya was appealed to,
but the Schoonlanders (Scandinavians) had neglected her advice.

[077/055] ca. 2000 BC
Afternêi håvon hja tha strêt Kâtsgat hêten.
Naderhand hebben zij die straat het Kattegat geheeten.
This strait was afterwards called the Kattegat.

[111/079] ca. 590 BC
Thrvch Wodins dor ånd dertenhêd was thene Magy bâs wrden ovir Skênlandis astardêl.
(...) Thju Moder wildet navt wêrha, hja sprêk ånde kêth, ik sja nên frêse an sina wêpne,
men wel vmbe tha Skênlander wêr to nimmande, thrvchdam hja bastered ånd vrdêren sind.
Door Wodins dwaze dartelheid, was de Magy meester geworden over het oosterdeel van Schoonland.
(...) De Moeder wilde het niet weren, zij sprak zeggende: Ik zie geen gevaar in zijne wapenen,
maar wel om de Schoonlanden weer te nemen, omdat zij verbasterd en verdorven zijn.
Through the mad wantonness of Wodin, Magy had become master of the east part of Scandinavia.
(...) The mother would not prevent it. She said, I see no danger in their weapons,
but much in taking the Scandinavians back again, because they are so degenerate and spoilt.

[113/081] ca. 590 BC
In stêde fon tha owera to biwâkande spandon hja hjara horsa for hjara togum ånd runon nêi Skênland thâ.
Tha Skênlander, tham nêy wêron nêi that land hjarar êthla kêmon nêi tha Dênemarkum.
In plaats van de oevers te bewaken, spanden hij hunne paarden voor hunne sleden, en reden naar Schoonland.
Doch de Schoonlanders, die begeerig waren naar het land hunner voorvaderen, kwamen naar de Denemarken.
Instead of watching on the shores, they put their horses in their sledges and drove off to Scandinavia.
Then the Scandinavians, who hungered after the land of their forefathers, came to Denmark.

[125/090] ca. 590 BC
Thâ is Apol min jungere brother fon hyr nêi thêre westsyde fon Skênlând fâren.
Toen is Apol mijn jongere broeder, van hier naar de westzijde van Schoonland gevaren.
Then my younger brother, Apol, sailed from here to the west side of Schoonland.

[149/109] ca. 590 BC
Êr wêron thêr mâr wêst, men sont wi Skênland miste, send hja nêi tha berga gvngon.
Voorheen waren er meer geweest, maar sedert wij Schoonland misten, zijn zij naar de bergen gegaan.
Formerly they were more numerous, but since we lost Schoonland they have gone up to the mountains.

[179/130] ca. 300 BC
Thit skrift is mij ower Nortland jeftha Skênland jêven.
Vndera tida thåt vs land del sêg, wêre ik to Skênland.
Dit geschrift is mij over Noordland of Schoonland gegeven.
Ten tijde dat ons land neder zonk, was ik in Schoonland.
This writing has been given to me about Northland and [or] Schoonland.
When our land was submerged I was in Schoonland.

[179/131] ca. 300 BC
Sont komath tha gode Northljud vâken to Texland vmb there Moder-is rêd.
Thâ wi ne mügath hjam for nêne rjuchta Fryas mar ne halde.
Sedert dien tijd komen de goede Noormannen dikwijls op Texland om raad van de Moeder.
Doch wij kunnen hen niet voor rechte Friezen meer houden.
Since that time the good Northmen come often to Texland for the advice of the mother;
still we cannot [no longer] consider them real Frisians [Fryas].

[219/161] ca. 270 BC
Thju tâle thêra Ast Skênlandar is thrvch tha wla Mâgjara vrbrûd;
thju tâle thêra Kaltana folgar is thrvch tha smûgrige Gole vrderven.
De taal der Oost Schoonlanders is door de vuile Magyaren verdraaid;
de taal der Keltana volgers is door de smerige Golen verdorven.
The language of the East Schoonlanders has been perverted by the vile Magyars,
and the language of the followers of Kaltana has been spoiled by the dirty Gauls.

[251/208] ca. 50 BC
Tha Saxmanna brochten hju ovir hjara marka, mith tha Juttar for hju nêi Skênland
ånd alingen thêre kâd fon tha Balda-sê, mith Askar his stjûrar for hju nêi Britanja.
De Saksmannen brachten ze over hunne marken; met de Jutten voer zij naar Schoonland
en langs de kusten van de Baltische zee; met Askar zijne zeelieden voer zij naar Brittannia.
The Saxsenmen took it over to their marches. The Jutlanders brought it to Schoonland
and along the coasts of the Baltic Sea, and with Askar's mariners it was taken to Britain.

### FYI:
I have written again to the research group of the Dutch Royal Library, that is about to publish the results of an examination of the paper and ink of the OLB.
The following shows that more similar research is having good results elsewhere:

Mysterious Voynich manuscript dates back to the 15th century

Researchers from the University of Arizona have discovered that the Voynich manuscript, which has been called “the world’s most mysterious manuscript,” was written sometime between 1404 to 1438. The findings were aired on a special documentary on the National Geographic Channel.

The Voynich manuscript was written by an unknown author, and is about 240 pages long. Its wording is called an “alien language” – the lettering does not even resemble other languages, while most pages contain images that depict optical phenomena, mystical drawings and meticulous zodiac maps.

Greg Hodgins, of the University of Arizona’s department of physics and leading member of a team that used radiocarbon dating to determine that text dates from the 15th century, was fascinated with the manuscript.

“Is it a code, a cipher of some kind? People are doing statistical analysis of letter use and word use – the tools that have been used for code breaking. But they still haven’t figured it out.”

The testing on the manuscript was done in 2009. To obtain the sample from the manuscript, Hodgins traveled to Yale University, where conservators had previously identified pages that had not been rebound or repaired and were the best to sample.

“I sat down with the Voynich manuscript on a desk in front of me, and delicately dissected a piece of parchment from the edge of a page with a scalpel,” Hodgins says.

He cut four samples from four pages, each measuring about 1 by 6 millimeters (roughly 1/32 by 1/4 inch) and brought them back to the laboratory in Tucson, where they were thoroughly cleaned.

“Because we were sampling from the page margins, we expected there are a lot of finger oils adsorbed over time,” Hodgins explains. “Plus, if the book was re-bound at any point, the sampling spots on these pages may actually not have been on the edge but on the spine, meaning they may have had adhesives on them.”

“The modern methods we use to date the material are so sensitive that traces of modern contamination would be enough to throw things off.”

Next, the sample was combusted, stripping the material of any unwanted compounds and leaving behind only its carbon content as a small dusting of graphite at the bottom of the vial.

“In radiocarbon dating, there is this whole system of many people working at it,” he said. “It takes many skills to produce a date. From start to finish, there is archaeological expertise; there is biochemical and chemical expertise; we need physicists, engineers and statisticians. It’s one of the joys of working in this place that we all work together toward this common goal.”

The UA’s team was able to push back the presumed age of the Voynich manuscript by 100 years, a discovery that killed some of the previously held hypotheses about its origins and history.

Elsewhere, experts analyzed the inks and paints that makes up the manuscript’s strange writings and images.

“It would be great if we could directly radiocarbon date the inks, but it is actually really difficult to do. First, they are on a surface only in trace amounts” Hodgins said. “The carbon content is usually extremely low. Moreover, sampling ink free of carbon from the parchment on which it sits is currently beyond our abilities. Finally, some inks are not carbon based, but are derived from ground minerals. They’re inorganic, so they don’t contain any carbon.”

“It was found that the colors are consistent with the Renaissance palette – the colors that were available at the time. But it doesn’t really tell us one way or the other, there is nothing suspicious there.”

While Hodgins is quick to point out that anything beyond the dating aspect is outside his expertise, he admits he is just as fascinated with the book as everybody else who has tried to unveil its history and meaning.

“The text shows strange characteristics like repetitive word use or the exchange of one letter in a sequence,” he says. “Oddities like that make it really hard to understand the meaning.”

“There are types of ciphers that embed meaning within gibberish. So it is possible that most of it does mean nothing. There is an old cipher method where you have a sheet of paper with strategically placed holes in it. And when those holes are laid on top of the writing, you read the letters in those holes.”

“Who knows what’s being written about in this manuscript, but it appears to be dealing with a range of topics that might relate to alchemy. Secrecy is sometimes associated with alchemy, and so it would be consistent with that tradition if the knowledge contained in the book was encoded. What we have are the drawings. Just look at those drawings: Are they botanical? Are they marine organisms? Are they astrological? Nobody knows.”

“I find this manuscript is absolutely fascinating as a window into a very interesting mind. Piecing these things together was fantastic. It’s a great puzzle that no one has cracked, and who doesn’t love a puzzle?”

The Voynich manuscript was featured on the National Geographic program Naked Science earlier this week.

### Posted 17 March 2011 - 08:42 AM
Otharus, on 13 October 2010 - 01:32 PM, said:
"WR.ALDA.S OD TRAD TO RA BINNA."

Note that there is a point (.) between "DRAMA" and "WR.ALDA.S" and that there is no point between "WR.ALDA.S" and "OD".

Overview of the various translations of "OD":
Haat; Hatred (Ottema 1876, Sandbach 1876, Snyman 1998)
Gottes Odem; God´s breath (Wirth 1933)
Geneugte; pleasure (Overwijn 1941)
Een spits; a phallic object (Jensma 1992)
Gelukzaligheid; bliss (Jensma 2006)
Licht; light (de Heer 2008)

Jensma was probably closest after all with his translation "gelukzaligheid" (bliss).

"Under the name Ódr, Odin is described as Freya`s first man. The name means “ecstatic frenzy” and characterizes him as a personification of this side of the fertility goddess` companion. Freya is called Ód`s bedvina – “Ód`s bed-girlfriend” by the bard Einar Skulason in the year 1100 A.D."

From: "Diser, nornor, valkyrjor – Fruktbarhetskult och sakralt kungadöme i Norden" (1954) by Folke Ström, translated by Maria Kvilhaug (Dísir, norns and valkyrias – Fertility cult and sacred kingship in the North by Folke Ström ~ Chapter 3: The Great Dís, the seidr and Odin)

### Posted 19 March 2011 - 07:23 AM
Otharus, on 15 March 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:
[077/055] ca. 2000 BC
Afternêi håvon hja tha strêt Kâtsgat hêten.
Naderhand hebben zij die straat het Kattegat geheeten.
This strait was afterwards called the Kattegat.

I missed one (some suggested improvements added):

[199/146] ca. 300 BC
Aftre grâte flod hwêr vr min tât skrêven heth,
wêron fêlo Juttar ånd Lêtne
mith ebbe uta Balda jefta kvade sê fored.
Bi Kât his gat drêvon hja in hjara kâna
mith yse vppa tha Dênemarka fåst
ånd thêr vp send hja sitten bilêwen. (...)
nêi hjara nôme håvon hja thåt land Juttarland hêten.
Na de groote vloed, waarover mijn vader geschreven heeft,
waren vele Jutten en Letten
met de ebbe uit de Balda of kwade zee gevoerd.
Bij Kathisgat dreven zij in hunne booten
met het ijs op de Denemarker[n] kust,
en zijn daar op blijven zitten. (...)
naar hunnen naam hebben zij het land Jut[tar]land geheeten.
After the great flood of which my father [dad] wrote an account,
there came many Jut[tar]landers and Let[ne]landers [had been driven]
[with the low tide] out of the Baltic, or bad [bold] sea.
They were driven down the Kattegat in their boats
by the ice as far as the coast of Denmark,
and there they remained. (...)
and named it after themselves, Jut[tar]land.

### Posted 19 March 2011 - 06:42 PM
I have come to the conclusion that mr. Vandemaele is wrong about (most of) his topography of the OLB.

Although it may be right that the 'Frisia' of the time of Willibrord, Boniface and Charles 'the great' (at least of the Medieval sources!) mostly has to be placed in the Calais area (as Delahaye proved), this cannot be true for the times described in the OLB.

In the OLB the 'Flymar' (Fly-lake) plays a central role, surounded by west-, east- and south-Flyland.

Near the mouth of the Fly (river between the Fly-lake and the sea), 'Almanland' and 'Wyringga' were located (p.83-85/59-60).

'Mêdêasblik' and 'Stâvora' were located at the Flymar (p.119/85).

I believe after all that the nowaday island 'Texel' used to be Frya's 'Texland', but in that time it used to be connected to Wyringga and Westflyland. Before 305 BC it also had land connected to it northwards.

This also means that present 'Den Burg' is probably built on what used to be 'old Fryasburg'.

I am preparing a better analysis of OLB's topography, but wanted to share something for now:

[Ottema & Sandbach p.159-161/ original p.115-117]

From the writings of
Frêthorik Oera-Linda, Asga to Ljudwardja,
about the big flood of 305 BC (see map):

Anna Wolfamônath lêidon tha Dênemarka fon Fryas lând vnder-ne sê bidobben.
Tha walda thêr bylda in wêron, wrdon vphyvath ånd thêr windum spel.
Thet jêr åfter kêm frost inna Herdemônath
ånd lêid ôld Fryas lând vnder en plônke skul.
In de Wolvenmaand (wintermaand) lagen de lage marken van Fryasland onder de zee bedolven.
De wouden, daar beelden in waren, werden opgeheven en een spel der winden.
Het jaar daarop kwam vorst in de Hardemaand (louwmaand)
en legde oud Fryasland onder een plank (ijsveld) verscholen.
In the Welvenmaand (winter month [dec.]) the low lands of Fryasland were buried under the sea.
The woods in which the images were, were torn up and scattered by the wind.
The following year the frost came in the Hardemaand (Louwmaand, January),
and laid [old] Fryasland concealed under a sheet of ice.

This means that "Dênemarka", mostly translated as "Denmark", can also refer to "low marks" or "low lands".

The term probably referred to all the flat and low lands between Calais and Jutland.

Otharus, on 15 March 2011 - 05:50 PM, said:
[ottema/Sanbach p.69/ original p.48]
Alle strând ånd skor hêmar fon-a Dênemarka alont thêre Såndfal nw Skelda
wrdon Stjurar, Sêkåmpar ånd Angelara hêton.
Alle strand en kustbewoners van de Denemarken af tot aan de Sandval, nu Schelde,
werden Stuurlieden, Zeekampers en Angelaren geheeten.
All those who lived [on beaches and shores] between Denmark and the Sandval, now the Scheldt,
were called Stuurlieden (pilots), Zeekampers (naval men), and Angelaren (fishermen).

### Posted 19 March 2011 - 07:03 PM
Otharus, on 19 March 2011 - 06:42 PM, said:
I believe after all that the nowaday island 'Texel' used to be Frya's 'Texland', but in that time it used to be connected to Wyringga and Westflyland. Before 305 BC it also had land connected to it northwards.

I also believe that Texandria/ Taxandria/ Toxandria (?) and "textile" are named after Texland.
And what about Thessaloniki?

### Posted 20 March 2011 - 03:50 AM
Otharus, on 19 March 2011 - 06:42 PM, said:
From the writings of
Frêthorik Oera-Linda, Asga to Ljudwardja,
about the big flood of 305 BC

I forgot to mention that the map was taken from the very good website (in the Dutch language) http://www.brucop.com/millennium/nederlands/toponyms/, by Dr.W.Bruijnesteijn van Coppenraet.

Here's some relevant translations, with some notes by me between [...]:

"According to the usual theory, Frisia in the time of the Roman occupation was roughly the present Netherlands north of the old Rhinestream (the limes). Climatologically it was a regression period and a huge sweetwaterlake, Flevo or Almere [in OLB: "Flymar"], was in the center. After the Romans left (ca.250 AD), and without doubt related to the increasing transgression, that wasted much of their lands, the Frisians moved their territtory more to the inlands: southwards with Zeeland and the river area [and Flandres?], east to the Weser (East-Friesland) and later (8th century even up to Sleeswijk. (...) Neighbours were south the Franks and east the Saxons. The Frisians also founded a colony in Brittania, Northumberland, from where in the 7th and 8th century missionaries came to their old lands [mostly to Flandres?]. The Franks always hated the Frisians. Already ca. 574 the Frankish king Chilperik I was praised for his terror against the Frisians:

You are the terror of the far Frisians and Suevans,
who are not only unprepared for war,
but even ask for your protection.
(...)

The assumption that Utrecht already existed in the period 600-640 and was temporary in Frankish hands is based on quicksand. In 697 Frisia started to finally really fall apart and Frisia citerior, the southern part up to the Rhine, was taken by the Frankish Pepin II. Ca. 719 his successor Karel Martel crossed the old limes en marched up to the Almere. In 736 the same Karel Martel attacked the Frisians in the back with a fleet and by winning the "Borne battle" he occupied the area up to the Eems river. The remaining eastern area, already disintegrated and taken over by the Saxons, finally was taken by the Franks, together with all of the Saxon lands, between 770 and 800 by Charles 'the great'. The terms Frisia and Frisii remained in use, but now as a Christian people, submitted under Frankish rule. After a period of invasions by the Normans [attempts to free the Frisians?], the whole area of the Frisians, from Walcheren to Eems, was part of the "Imperium Danicum", the empire of the Vikings, during the second half of the 9th century, but this was under supervision of the Frankish emperor.
(...)
The highly indoctrinating traditional science, that has evolved from the primitive historiography of the late Middle Ages, often gives an unsatisfying view on the geography of our lands in the first millennium. At the other side, the vision of Albert Delahaye, who radically moved the geography to North France, is also far from satisfying. A "semi-traditional" view, that accepts that Delahaye went too far with his revision of the historical geography, but that also accepts that the Nether-lands in that area was subject to heavy transgressions and therefore mostly flooded, at least climatologically not habitable, is presented in publications by Kreijns and Pirson, Van Veen and Bruijnesteijn v.C."

### Posted 20 March 2011 - 04:33 AM
Abramelin, on 19 March 2011 - 07:57 PM, said:
Otharus, the map you posted (I guess it's from the book you just read) is based on an outdated theory, the Dunkirk Transgressions:

For general information (in Dutch):
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duinkerke-transgressies
For more specific (and scientific) information (again, in Dutch): (link now lost)
So although it's a nice map, it does not represent the real situation back then.

The map shows in blue what would be flooded now if there were no dykes, the green areas are flooded with a +5 m flood and the yellow areas with a +10 m flood.

I used it not in relation to the transgression theory, that is under debate (Wiki also says OLB is a hoax, so it's not a neutral source), but to give an idea of what the area may have looked like during the 305 BC flood.

Quote
About Texel: archeologists have found proof of habitation from 900 BC and onwards. (...)
(...) Tussen de toplaag en de bodemkant van de diepst gelegen laag 4 (dekzand met bewoningssporen uit de prehistorie en later), liggen laag 2 en 3 die respectievelijk ophogingslagen en sporen bevatten uit de Late Middeleeuwen en de Vroege Middeleeuwen. (...)

The survey was made for (and paid for by) the local government of Texel, that wanted to build something new (as far as I understand). Their goal was not to find remains. But I'll have a look at the report.

### Posted 20 March 2011 - 04:42 AM
Abramelin, on 19 March 2011 - 08:00 PM, said:
Heh, you should have added that Texel is also spelled/pronounced as "Tessel".

That is correct, thanks for adding that. I often forget to mention what is obvious (to me).

Quote
But are you suggesting that people from 'Texland' (or Tessel-land) went to what was later to be known as Thessaloniki??

Well, according to OLB people from old-Frisia (that had old Fryasburg on Texland as their 'capital') went to that area and founded Athena.

If that is true, it's easy to imagine that many names from the old area would be re-used in what is now Greece. Same goes for other colonies, like North-east India. Vandemaele's book has many nice examples. I will make a post with some of my favorites.

### Posted 20 March 2011 - 08:35 AM
Abramelin, on 19 March 2011 - 07:57 PM, said:
For more specific (and scientific) information (again, in Dutch)

From this article ("Het fysisch-geografisch onderzoek en de ontstaansgeschiedenis van westelijk Zeeuws-Vlaanderen: een status quaestionis" by Geuch de Boer):

"During the Roman occupation, the 'Suevo-Flemmish' (Zeeuws-Vlaamse) coastal area consisted of a wide bog-marsh [* see note], but within only a few centuries, it was transformed into an utterly dynamic 'shore-area' with 'slicks', plateaus and active streams where the sea could play freely. Up until a few decades ago, the cause of this was considered to be exclusively natural - change of climate, increase of the frequency of storms, increase of the relative sea level - but nowadays it becomes ever more clear that the inhabitants of the coastal plains, from the Roman times on, have had a major influence on the developments of the landscape."

[* Note: up until the early 20th century, this "bog" was dried to serve as fuel.
Bog is organic material, which means it must have been the remains of a long period of forested land?]

In other words; the increasing floods were mostly a result of the use (or abuse?) of the land by people.

This may have been the case for the whole of what is now the Netherlands.

(Even the use of gas (as fuel) from the bubble under our earth, may result (or have resulted) in sinking of the land...)

So, whether it is called transgressions or differently, fact is that after the Roman occupation, a few hundred years of big floods followed, until our ancestors started to build dykes and litterally "reclaim" land.

### Posted 20 March 2011 - 08:39 AM
Abramelin, on 19 March 2011 - 08:00 PM, said:
But are you suggesting that people from 'Texland' (or Tessel-land) went to what was later to be known as Thessaloniki??


More on Texel and its varieties:

Vandemaele p.58:
"... Texland of Texalia, het huidige Escalles bij Calais, volgens Ptolomeus himself Tecelia geheten, ten noorden van Boulogne."

translated:
"... Texland of Texalia, nowaday Escalles near Calais, according to Ptolomeus himself called Tecelia, north of Boulogne."

Dr.Bruijnesteijn made a reconstructive map, using the estimated coordinates by Ptolomeus. See added fragment.

He places Ptolomeus' Tecalia near the mouth of the Wisurgis (Weser or OLB's Wrsara).

Which one is right? Or both? Or none?
It all seems possible with the many migrations that have taken place.

### Posted 20 March 2011 - 09:40 AM
About the argument that something should have been found by archaeology.

In the Westfrisian village where I was born and raised, Wijdenes, count Floris V of Holland had a castle built after he had finally conquered the Westfrisians in the late 13th century.

According to oral tradition, it would have been built on the remains of an earlier 'castle' from the Danish or viking founder of the village Roelof, Roeland or Rodulf (etc.).

The coat of arms of Wijdenes/ Wydenes/ Wyns/ Venes/ Wienesse/ Vornes (etc.) still has a (chess game style) tower as a reminder of this time.

There are theories that (part of) the village used to be located in what is now the Markermeer (earlier: Zuiderzee, resp. IJsselmeer).

There has been a lot of searching for remains or foundations of this 13th century castle (-700 BP), but nothing significant has been found yet. Yet, there is no doubt that is once existed.

Therefore, I am not so surprised that nothing has been found yet, of the era -4200 till -2000 BP.

### Posted 21 March 2011 - 08:21 AM
Otharus, on 15 March 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:
TOPOGRAPHY OF THE O.L.B. ~ part 1: SKÊNLAND ...
GODA BURCH (SKÊNLAND) = GÖTEBORG (SWEDEN/ SVERIGE) ...
LINDASBURCH(T) / LINDASNÔSE (WEST-SKÊNLAND) = LINDESNES (NORWAY/ NORGE) ...

Missed yet another interesting reference to SKÊNLAND (Scandinavia).
Probably (the area of) Uppsala in Sweden is meant:

[Ottema&Sandbach p.6/ original p.3]

Men sin ljuda dêdon mâr:
bern wrdon to sok makad,
nei vpsalândum wêibrocht,
ånd sâhwersa hja vpbrocht wêron an sina vvla lêr,
thån wrdon hja to bek sendon.
Maar zijne lieden deden meer;
kinderen werden te zoek gemaakt,
naar de bovenlanden weggevoerd,
en nadat zij opgevoed waren in zijne verderfelijke leer,
dan werden zij terug gezonden.
His people did even more.
Children disappeared,
were taken away to the uplands,
and after they had been brought up in his pernicious doctrines,
were sent back.

### Posted 21 March 2011 - 06:30 PM
Abramelin, on 21 March 2011 - 01:05 PM, said:
I was thinking... the king/leader of the Huns/Magyar was Attila.
In Scandinavia his name was "Atla" or 'Atli" (see the Snorri Edda).

Attila the Hun lived in the 5th century.
I don't see how he can have anything to do with Atland.
I think his name may very well be another version of the OLB name "ADEL".

### Posted 22 March 2011 - 07:41 AM
The following contains some interesting fragments, i.m.o.:

The dawn of the Scandinavian Bronze Age has been traced back to the 16th century B.C and lasted for a thousand years before it was gradually evolved into the Iron Age of the fifth century B.C. The population of Scandinavia of that time is supposed to have consisted of a fusion of groups native to the area from the earliest Neolithic period and of immigrant groups known as the “Battle Axe people” who apparently emerged from east-central Europe and who settled in the Baltic and in Scandinavia during the Neolithic period. Hallmarks of their culture were the battle-axes and individual burials.
(...)
Indo-European language and culture was certainly dominant in Scandinavia by the time of the Iron Age.

That it was so even in the Bronze Age seems very plausible, also that there were certain likenesses in culture between the Scandinavian upper classes and those of southern Europe such as the aristocratic Greeks who produced the heroic poetry of the Iliad and the Odyssey. There was certainly a great deal of trade and travel between the North and South during the Bronze Age, and even ideas and cultic practice were being exchanged. Labyrinth symbols from Crete have been found in rock carvings in the north of Norway, dating back to the time of the Minoan civilization. Symbols of Sacred Marriage were common all over Scandinavia during the Bronze Age, another link to Mediterranean and Middle Eastern religions. As illustrated by the image above, the Scandinavian Sacred Marriage was often depicted in burial chambers or on the lids of burial urns – showing that the Sacred Marriage as a symbol was, in some way or other, associated with resurrection and the afterlife already then.

We know that the divine pantheon of the Iliad, and even many of the rituals described there - supposedly a very old story even when it was written down sometime during the eight century B.C - had its clear continuity in the religion and cults of the Greeks far into the Roman Age, only to disappear through the victory of the Church. The lack of literary evidence means that we know comparatively little of the pantheon of the Scandinavian Bronze Age and how it may have continued, changed or vanished as the Iron Age evolved.

The continuity of cults through the ages

That some level of continuity in religion and cult is possible is shown, among other things, through the works of Tacitus who wrote about the German tribes around the year 80 A.D. His descriptions of religion and cult are certainly recognizable in other descriptions of Germanic peoples written down even more than a thousand years later. Texts written down in the 13th century A.D also relate stories that may be recognized from picture stones reaching more than six hundred years back in time before they were written down. Heroic poems featuring historical characters such as Attila the Hun, who died in 451 A.D, still flourished in the 13th century A.D.

It would certainly be possible to prove that cult, mythology and religion in general often have a “life-span” of several thousand years in the history of religions, looking for example at the figure of Ishtar-Inanna and the associated cult of Sacred Marriage which lasted for thousands of years and reached into many other cultures in the Middle-East, the Mediterranian, even England, Ireland and Scandinavia. I think we should not underestimate the power of continuity in poetry, cult, religion and pantheons in ancient times.

Indeed, it would be remarkable if the Norse pantheon of gods such as Ódinn, Thor, Freyr and Freyia just popped up from nothing sometime before the Viking Age, while the previous gods simply vanished. It is tempting to suggest that even if the names of these deities changed, their essential functions and attributes did not.

Divine emblems of the Bronze Age reappear in the Viking Age Pantheon

In the artistic works of the Scandinavian Bronze Age, certain types of symbols appear and reappear throughout the whole period. The four symbols of major concern to this article are the following: disk (sun-disk), axe or hammer, spear and sword. The symbols have obvious reference to cult and worship and are often found together, the symbols apparently driving in a chariot or being aboard a ship.
(...)
The Sun and the Souls

The idea of the sun as female is actually dominant in Scandinavia since the the Saami also spoke of a “Sun-Maiden”, Beaivi-Nieida, who according to some traditions was the single origin of all souls, carried to earth on her sun-rays. Indeed, all souls were feminine in their origin, changed to men only while in the mother´s womb. The Great Goddess as Sun may have been a Finno-Ugric influence on Scandinavian religion.
(...)

From: The Sun Goddess and the Roots of the Bronze Age in Norse Mythology, by Maria Kvilhaug

######

Posted 22 March 2011 - 11:08 AM
Abramelin, on 22 March 2011 - 06:59 AM, said:
But Ottema assumed it meant spacious.
It's "Rome, aka "Rum".
NOT Rome, aka Spacious".

Sorry Abe, you are wrong, Ottema was right.

ROME, THAT IS RUM (= spacious!)
===>>> see reading exercises

### Posted 22 March 2011 - 11:26 AM
What is said is this, basically:

ÉNE STÉD, HÉTEN ROME, THAT IS RUM
een stad, geheten Rome, dat is 'ruim'
a city, named Rome, that is 'room' (space)

### Posted 22 March 2011 - 06:43 PM
OERA SKELDA ~ Over the Schelde

[original p.62]
OVERA SKELDA ET THÉRE FLYBURCH SAT SYRHÉD
[Ottema/Sandbach p.87]
Over de Schelde op de Flyburgt, zat Sijrhed
On the other side of the Scheldt, at Flyburgt, Sijrhed presided

Here "over the Scheldt" means: on the South side of the Scheldt, because the story is told from the perspective of Walhallagara (Walcheren on one of the "Seven Islands"). The "Fly-" of the name "Flyburch" cannot refer to the (same) river Fly as from the Flymar and the Flymvda elsewhere in the text. It probably means "flee" here as in "to escape". Much later in the text (and in time) there is a Fly- or Wêraburch in the Krylwald near Ljvwerde (original p.206, Ottema/Sandbach p.247).
What would be a possible location for a Flyburch south of the Scheldt?
Considering the fact that convicted criminals were given the chance to "flee" to Britain, I would guess that the Flyburch should have been close to Calais.

===>>> see reading exercises

And now... my favorite part of this post:

As I showed earlier, in the OLB the whole area between Jutland and the Scheldt is sometimes referred to as "Denemarka".
The 'Dani' probably have lived all over the coast from Jutland down to Normandy.

I would like to suggest that the legendary Scyldings from the BEOWULF-epic were a 'Danish' royal family whose unexplained name can be related to the SKELDE/ SKELDA/ Scheldt/ Schelde area.

I was surprised that even Joel Vandemaelle, who created many alternative (and sometimes very far-fetched) etymologies, did not mention this possibility in his book "Het BEOWULF-epos ~ Angelsaksisch of Fries-Saksisch erfgoed van omstreeks 500 uit Frans-Vlaanderen".

Genealogy Over de Linden (old post with some left overs)

[updated 2019, October 17]

aantekeningen Steggerda:

Anders Wijben [OL?] te Steggerda
? X Harmke/ Harmijntje?
Kinderen:
- ? Jan, c. 1718-1719 ?
- ? Lysbet, c. 1720-1726 ?
- Grietien, ged. 10-8-1727 Steggerda [Margrietje?]
- Paape, 25-6-1730 ,, [Poppe?]
- Grietien, 20-12-1732 ,,
- Mindert, 17-7-1735 ,, [Meint?]
- Margjen, 23-3-1738 ,,

==========

fragment genealogie van vermoedelijk zus Jan Andriesz Overlende:

I) Engele Haitzes (van Lemmer)
geh. 1746 Lemsterland (Lemmer/ Follega/ Eastera)
Lijsbert Andrijs/ Lysbet Andries (van Steggerda), [d.v. Andries OL en Harmke/ Harmijntje?]
Kinderen:

1. Meint, ged. 9-11-1746 Lemmer
2. Harmke Engels, ged. 2-10-1749 Lemmer; geh. 27-3-1774 Stavoren (brg won Stavoren, brd won Lemmer) Bauke Dirks Koster ==> Daniel, ged. 11-12-1774 Lemmer; Meijndert, ged. 13-12-1775 Lemmer; Meijnt, ged. 15-2-1777 Lemmer; Aaltje, ged. 6-8-1783 Lemmer; Daantje, ged. 18-4-1782 Lemmer, geh. 8-10-1812 Lemsterland Harmen Freerks de Roos
3. (Jits, ged. 5-3-1752 Lemmer)
4. Jits Engeles (Jisk), ged. 27-1-1754 Lemmer; geh. 3-3-1782 Lemmer (beide won ald) Frans Bruining, ==> Hester Bruining, ged. 21-12-1782 Lemmer; geh. 3-5-1712 Sneek Tjerk Alles Bleeker; Engel, ged. 30-3-1784 Lemmer; Liesbet, geb. 15-2-1785 Lemmer
5. Poppe, ged. 7-12-1756 Lemmer
6. Aaltie, ged. 4-5-1760 Lemmer
7. Andrijs Engelsz, ged. 5-1-1763 Lemmer ==> II)

= = =

II) Andries Engelsz Over de Linde (bij inschr. naamsaanneming 1811), geb. 5-1-1763, ged. 9-1 Lemmer "Andrijs", ovl. 13-11-1830 Sneek (geen onr. goed) [verkoop 1/2 deel in een veer van Sneek op Leeuwarden vice versa NA Sneek 12-3-1827, akte niet gezien];
geh. 26-3-1797 Lemmer (Hervormde gemeente Lemmer Follega Eesterga)
Dina Karels Laskewits (van Lemmer), geb. 1760 Koevorden, ovl. 29-7-1844 Zwartsluis, d.v. Karel Latskewits en Helena van Benthem.
kinderen (familienaam nog niet gebruikt bij doop!):

1. Lijsbet Overdelinde, geb. 1-4-1798, ged. 8-4 Lemmer; geh. 1830 (toestemming 16-7 Sneek) Zwartsluis Evert Slager, bakker te Zwartsluis
2. (Engele, geb. 12-11-1799, ged. 1-12 Lemmer)
3. (Carolina, geb. 1-11-1800, ged. 23-11 Lemmer, ovl. voot 1811)
4. Engele Overdelinde, geb. 2-1-1802, ged. 20-1 Lemmer => III
5. Meint Overdelinde, geb. 30-11-1803, ged. 18-12 Lemmer; schoenmaker in 1830

= = =

III) Engele Andries Overdelinde, geb. 2-1-1802 Lemmer (Lemsterland), schoenmaker in 1830;
geh. 17-5-1829 Sneek
Jantje Simons (de) Waard(t), geb. 1899 Munnekezijl (Kollumerland), ovl. 1-4-1882 Blokzijl, d.v. Siemon Egberts de Waardt en Maria Eppinga.
Kinderen:

1. Andries Over de Linde, geb. 1829 Sneek => IV.1
2. Dina Overdelinde, geb. 1-11-1831 Sneek
3. Maria Overdelinde, geb. 29-10-1833 Sneek
4. Simon Engeles Overdelinde, koopman, geb. 1837 Sneek; geh. 21-06-1879 Zwartsluis Poulina Hendriks de Goede (wed. Roelof Slager), geb. 17-11-1832 Zwartsluis, ovl. 19-08-1916 Zwartsluis
5. Meindert Overdelinde/ Over de Linden, geb. 31-1-1839 Sneek => IV.5)

= = =

IV.1) Andries Overdelinde/ Over de Linde, besteller/ schoenmaker, geb. 1829 Sneek, won. Meppel 1856;
geh. 30-05-1856 Zwartsluis
Trijntje Schuuring/ Schurink, dienstmeid, geb. Zwartsluis, d.v. Jan Lucas Schuuring en Trijntje Visscher
Kinderen:

1. Engele Overdelinde, geb. 1858 Zwartsluis => V
2. Trijntje Overdelinde, geb. 1860 Zwartsluis; geh. 9-9-1899 Zwartsluis Steven Eilander, geb. 1864 Wijhe, lakei, z.v. Steven Eilander en Johanna Rietberg

= = =

 

IV.5) Meindert Overdelinde/ Over de Linden, geb. 31-1-1839 Sneek, behanger/ koopman;

geh. 20-4-1870 Nijmegen

Elisabeth Alberdina Gort, d.v. Jan Gort en Johanna Cornelia Ahaz

Kinderen:

1. (Johanna Cornelia, ovl. 15-9-1878 Nijmegen, 9 mnd. oud)
2. Johanna Cornelia Over de Linde, geb. 3-5-1883 Nijmegen, ovl. 274-1960 Nijmegen; geh. 29-5-1914 Den Haag Ferdinand Gerard Uhlenbroek, geb. 1885, kunsthandelaar, z.v. Jan Christoffel Uhlenbroek en Engelina Theresia Rosalia Raaijmakers
   
3. Jan Over de Linde, geb. 12-6-1885 Nijmegen; geh. 22-5-1935 Rotterdam Leentje Nauta, geb. 1888 Harlingen, ovl. 24-10-1955 Rotterdam, d.v. Job Nauta en Dieuwke Rinsma, eerder wed. Evert Jacobus Kaarsmaker
4. EmmaOver de Linde, geb. 19-6-1889 Nijmegen; geh. 2-11-1915 Arnhem Julius Hermann Maria Rauwendaal, geb. 1890, militair, z.v. Heinrich Rauwendaal en Lina Bernhardt
   

 

= = =

V) Engele Overdelinde/ Over de Linde, geb. 1858 Zwartsluis, ovl. 14-11-1943 Zwartsluis, verzekeringsagent;
geh. 15-2-1883 Zwartsluis
Geertje Schraa, geb. 1859 Zwartsluis, ovl. na 1920, d.v. Gerrit Schraa en Johanna de Wilde.
kinderen:

1. Andries Overdelinde, geb. 1883 Zwartsluis, ovl. Schiedam; geh. 10-5-1907 Genemuiden Artha Jilia Johannes Troost, geb. 1884 Genemuiden, ovl. Schiedam
2. Gerrit Overdelinde (1893-1971), geb. 16-4-1893 Zwartsluis, ovl. 13-4-1971 Schiedam, Scheepstimmerman (!) bij Mij. De Waterweg (later Droogdok); geh. 1920 Centina Knegt, geb. 7-10-1896 IJsselmonde, ovl. 15-5-1976 Schiedam

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Last update (March 14, 2017): Part I has been improved and moved here. Links to sub-parts from there.

old chart - this needs to be updated - also see below

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

The OLB-manuscript was passed on:
(1 and 2 are according to Cornelis Over de Linden I)

1. in or before 1820 by Andries Over de Linden (Enkhuizen) to his daughter:
2. Aafje Meylhof-Over de Linden (Enkhuizen) who in 1848 handed it over to:
3. Cornelis Over de Linden I, who in 1874 (Den Helder) left it to his son:
4. Leendert Floris Over de Linden, who in 1919 (Den Helder) left it to the grandson of his brother:
5. Cornelis Over de Linden IV (Amsterdam), who handed it over in 1938 to the Provincial Library of Friesland (now "Tresoar").

Note: Jensma has spoken with descendants H.J. Over de Linden (Weesp) and Otto van Heusden (Voorschoten), who "both intensively studied the family history".


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


Other or unidentified or to-be-inserted Over de Linden families (notes)

Johanna Margarethe Over de Linden/ must be: van der Linden, born 30-4-1840, died 8-2-1927, married to Klaas ter Burg, born 1-11-1839, died 17-7-1924 Den Helder

-------------


##############

Ca. 6th century BCE (just a creative experiment):

Ca. 3rd century BCE (creative experiment):

Frisia Borealis

 
Saxmarks = North Frisia or Frisia Borealis?

1. [005/13] (grevetmen Adela)
THER SAX.MAN. STORO SYTJA.S MAN.
GRÉVETMAN OVIR.A HÁGA FENNA ÀND WALDA. (...)
THA BURGA BVDA ÀND MANNA.GÁRDA.FORDA
[O+S p.11]
De Saxman Storo, Sytias man,
grevetman over de Hoogefennen en Wouden (...)
de burgten Buda en Manna-garda-forda
The Saxman Storo, Sytia's husband [man];
Grevetman over the Hoogefennen and Wouden [woods]. (...)
The towns [burgs] Buda and Manna-garda-forda

2. [049/04] (before the bad times)
THÉRA THÉR IN DA HÁGE MARKA SÁTON
THÉR ANNA TWISK.LANDA PÁLON
WRDON SAXMANNA HÉTON.
UT HÁWEDE HJA IMMER WÉPNED WÉRON
VR THÀT WILDE KWIK ÀND VRWILDARDA BRITNE
[O+S p.69]
Die in de hooge marken gezeten waren [zaten],
welke aan de Twisklanden paalden [palen],
werden Saxmannen geheeten,
uithoofde zij altijd gewapend waren
tegen het wild gedierte en de verwilderde Britten [= (weg)gebrachtene]
Those who were settled in the higher marches
bounded by [bordering the] Twisklanden (Germany)
were called Saxmannen,
because they were always armed
against the wild beasts and the savage Britons [= outcasts]

3. [087/29] (Adelbrost)
SJUGUN MÔNATHA ÀFTER WERTH.ER EN MÉNA
ACHT BILIDSEN ÀND WEL TO GRÉNEGÁ
UT ÉRSÉKE THAT ANNA SAXANA MARKA PÁLTH
[O+S p.123]
Zeven maanden daarna werd eene algemeene
vergadering belegd en wel te Grenega,
uit oorzaak dat het aan de Saksamarken paalt
Seven months later a general
assembly was called at Grenega (Groningen),
because it was on the boundary of Saxamarken

4. [094/15] (Bruno)
EN JUNGE SAXMÀN BIRÉD EN WILDE BUFLE
THÉRER SELVA FENSEN HÉDE ÀND TÀMAD
[O+S p.131]
een jonge Saksman bereed een wilden buffel,
dien hij zelf gevangen en getemd had
A young Saxon bestrode a wild bull [bufalo]
which he had caught and tamed [himself]

5. [111/31] (Apollanja)
ÉR HÉDIK ANDA SÁXANA MARKA.
TO THÉRE BURCH MÀNNA.GÁRDA.FORDA WÉST
[O+S p.153]
Weleer was ik in de Saxenmarken
op de burgt Mannagardaforde geweest
I had been before in the Saxenmarken,
at the Mannagardaforde castle (Munster)

6. [112/03] (Apollanja)
SÁ HWERSA THÉR AN DA SÁXANA MARKA
EN FRÉJAR KVMATH EN MANGÉRTE TO BIFRÉJANDE
[O+S p.153]
zoo wanneer daar aan de Saxenmarken
een vrijer een meisje komt bevrijen
So whenever at the Saxenmarken
a young man [lover] courts a young girl

7. [112/13] (Apollanja)
DÁNA IST KVMEN THÀT THA SAXMANA.
THJU BUW ANDA WIVA VRLÉTEN HÀVE
[O+S p.153]
Daar van daan is ’t gekomen, dat de Saxmannen
den landbouw aan de vrouwen [wijven] overgelaten hebben
And from this it comes that the Saxons
have left the cultivation of the soil to the women [wives]

8. [113/14] (Apollanja)
THA JONGSTE THÉR FÁMNA FON THÉRA. THÉR BY MI WÉRON.
KÉM UTA SAXSANA.MARKA WÉI
[O+S p.155]
De jongste van de maagden, die bij mij waren,
kwam uit de Saxenmarken weg
The youngest of the maids who were with me
came from the Saxenmarken

9. [113/19] (Apollanja)
ÀND DÁNA IST KVMEN THÀTER HJUDÉGA
SÁ FELO SAXMÀNNA BY THA STJURAR FÁRE
[O+S p.155]
daarvan daan is het gekomen, dat heden ten dage
zoo vele Saxmannen bij onze zeelieden varen
and that is the reason why in these days
so many of our sailors are Saxons [sail with the navigators]

10. [115/06] (Frethorik)
THA SAXMÀNNA WÉRON FROME ÀND FROD BILYWEN
[O+S p.159]
De Saxmannen waren vroom en braaf gebleven
The Saxmen had remained religious [pious?] and upright

11. [118/23] (Frethorik)
THÁ VSA LÁNDA WITHER TO BIGANA WÉR
KÉMON THÉR BANDA ERMA SAXMANNA ÀND WIVA
NÉI THA VVRDUM FON STAVERE ÀND THÀT ALDERGA.
VMBE GOLDEN ÀND ÔRA SJARHÉDA TO SÉKANE
FONUT THA WASIGE BODEME.
THACH THA STJURAR NILDO HJA NAVT TO LÉTA
THA GVNGON HJA THA LÉTHOGA THORPA BIHÉMA
TO WEST FLÍLAND. VMBE RA LIF TO BIHALDANE
[O+S p.163]
Toen onze landen weder te begaan waren,
kwamen er benden arme Saxmannen en vrouwen
naar de oorden van Staveren en het Alderga,
om gouden en andere sieraden te zoeken
uit de drassige bodem.
Doch de zeelieden wilden hen niet toelaten.
Toen gingen zij de ledige dorpen bewonen
te West Flyland, om hun lijf te behouden
When our country began to recover,
there came troops of poor Saxon men and women
to the neighbourhoods of Staveren and Alderga,
to search for gold and other treasures
in the swampy lands.
But the sea-people [navigators] would not permit it,
so they went and settled in the empty village[-s]
of the West Flyland in order to preserve their lives

12. [133/24] (Wiljo)
MIN NÔM IS WIL.JO, IK BIN THA FÁM
THÉR MITH HIM FONA SAXANA MARKA TO HONK FOR
[O+S p.183]
Mijn naam is Wiljo, ik ben de maagd [fam],
die met hem uit de Saksenmarken naar huis voer
My name is Wiljo. I am the maiden [fam]
who came home with him from Saxsenmarken

13. [134/04] (Wiljo)
THÁ.K NÉI THA SAXANA MARKA FOR.
HÀV IK THRJU BOKA HRET
[O+S p.183]
Toen ik naar de Saksenmarken voer,
heb ik drie boeken gered
When I went to Saxsenmarken
I preserved three books

14. [150/09] (Konered about Friso)
AN BYDE SIDA THÉRE HAVES.MVDE
IS ÉNE WITH.BURCH BVWED.
THÉR IN IS FOLK LÉID
THAT FRISO UTA SAXANA MARKA TÁCH
[O+S p.203]
dat aan beide zijden van den havenmond
[is] eene versterkte [zee-]burgt gebouwd is,
en daarin is volk gelegd,
dat Friso uit de Saksenmarken trok
on each side of the harbour
a strong citadel [seaburg] has been [is] built,
and garrisoned by people
brought by Friso out of Saksenmarken

15. [150/23] (Konered about Friso)
THENE JONGSTE SKIKT.ER AS SENDA BODA NÉI KATTA.BURCH
THÀT DJAP INNA SAXANAR MARKA LÉID
[O+S p.203]
den jongste zond hij als zendbode naar Kattaburgt,
dat diep in de Saksenmarken ligt
the youngest, he sent as messenger to Kattaburgt,
which lies far in the Saxsenmarken

16. [151/14] (Konered about Friso)
AFTER THISSA BODON LÉT.ER IMMER JONGK.FOLK
OVER THA SAXANAR MARKA FÁRA
[O+S p.205]
Na deze boden liet hij gedurig jongvolk
over de Saksenmarken trekken
After these messengers he let his young people
constantly go over to the Saxsenmarken

17. [151/20] (Konered about Friso)
JEF.T NV BÉRDE THÀT THA SAXANA KNÁPA
THÉR NÍDICH NÉI UTSÁGON
[O+S p.205]
Als het nu gebeurde dat de Saksen knapen
daar afgunstig op zagen...
When [or: if it happened that] the Saxsen youths
looked with envy at this

18. [151/28] (Konered about Friso)
ÀFTERNÉI KÉMON THA SAXANAR KNÁPA ÀND MANGÉRTNE
BY ÉLLE KEDDUM NÉI THÀT FLÍ.MAR DEL
[O+S p.205]
naderhand kwamen de Saksische jongelingen [knapen] en meisjes
bij geheele troepen [kudden] naar het Flymeer afzakken
afterwards the Saxsen youths and girls
came in whole troops to the Flymeer

19. [155/13] (Konered about Adel)
HJU KÉM FONUT THA SAXANA.MARKUM WÉI.
FONUT.ÉRE STÁTHA THÉR IS KÉTHEN SVÔBA.LAND
[O+S p.209]
Zij kwam uit de Saksenmarken weg,
uit de staat die genoemd is Suobaland
She came from Saxenmarken,
from the state of [that is called] Suobaland

20. [156/05] (Konered about Adel)
VMBE THA MÀNNISKA VPPA HJRA SÍD TO KRÉJANDE.
WAS HJU MITH HJRA FRJUDELF FON OF HJRA TÁT
THRVCH ALLE SAXANA MARKA FÁREN
AND FORTH NÉI GÉRT.MÀNNJA
[O+S p.211]
Om de menschen op hare zijde te krijgen,
was zij met haren echtgenoot van haren vader
door alle Saksenmarken gereisd
en voorts naar Geertmannia
To bring the people to her side,
she travelled with her husband [from her dad]
through all Saxenmarken,
and also to Geertmannia

21. [201/19] (anonymus about Askar)
THÀT FOLK WÉRMITH HI WITH THA SALT.ÁTHUM THERA GOLUM KÀMPED HÉDE
HÉD.ER ÚT.A SAXANA.MARKUM LVKTH
[O+S p.243]
Het volk waarmede hij tegen de soldaten der Golen had gestreden,
had hij uit de Saksenmarken gelokt
The people with whom he [had] fought against the soldiers of the Gauls,
he had enticed out of the Saxenmarken

22. [204/08] (anonymus about Askar)
FORTH GVNG HJU ÀFTERA SAXNA.MARKA
TWERES THRVCH THA ÔRA TWISK.LANDA HIN
[O+S p.245]
Voorts ging zij achter de Saksenmarken,
dwars door de andere Twisklanden heen
She proceeded on beyond the Saxsenmarken,
crossing through the other Twisklanders

23. [208/02] (anonymus about Askar)
THA SAXMANNA BROCHTEN HJU OVIR HJARA MARKA.
MITH THA JUTTAR FOR HJU NÉI SKÉNLAND
ÀND ALINGEN THÉRE KÁD FON THA BALDA.SÉ.
MITH ASKAR HIS STJÚRAR FOR HJU NÉI BRITANJA
[O+S p.251]
De Saksmannen brachten ze [haar] over hunne marken;
met de Jutten voer zij naar Schoonland
en langs de kusten van de Baltische zee;
met Askar zijne zeelieden voer zij naar Brittannia
The Saxsenmen took it [brought her] over to their marches.
[with] The Jutlanders brought it [she sailed] to Schoonland
and along the coasts of the Baltic Sea,
and with Askar's mariners it was taken [she sailed] to Britain

24. [209/29] (anonymus about Askar)
HI JEF HIM TWÉN HVNDRED SKOTSE
ÀND HVNDRED THÉRA STOROSTA SAXMANNA
MITH TO LIF.WÉRA
[O+S p.253]
hij gaf hem tweehonderd Schotten
en honderd van de grootste Saksmannen
mede tot eene lijfwacht
He gave him two hundred Scotch
and one hundred of the greatest Saksmannen
to go with him as a bodyguard