02 October 2014

Forum #43 (12 march - 1 oct. 2014)

Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:53 PM

The Puzzler, on 10 March 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:
... hjara moders baerta-lând mit nôma ald-lând that nw vnder-ne sê lêith
... their mothers birth land, named aldland that is under the sea.
I have the feeling that "mit nôma" (Dutch: "met name") could also be read as the Dutch expression "dat wil zeggen" (something like: "that is"). What do you think about this, Van Gorp?
Reading it this way, the author may not have meant to name the land, but rather points out that this birth-land no longer exists, because it is the old (former) land, now under the sea.
The meaning would then be something like this:
... their mothers birth land, which was part of the lost world (old land) that is now under the sea.

 Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:53 PM
Also, since Finda is rather a mythological (archetypal), than a historical mother, it does not really make sense to treat the myth of where she came from as factual; some may have believed she came from the Himalayas, others from the Ganges, others from the old land that was lost.

East of Japan (Yonaguni?) and near the NW coast of India (Dwarka?), underwater cities were found.

I bet similar things may be discovered around the Faröe Islands.

Posted 13 March 2014 - 10:12 AM
In other words:
The mythological Finda represents the antediluvian ancestors of the 'yellow' people.
They probably did not descend from the Himalayas, nor did they come from Ganges-foam.
My guess is that they will have lived in coastal areas that were lost as a result of (suddenly) rising sea-levels, or a huge tsunami (or both).

Posted 22 March 2014 - 11:37 AM
Congratulations, Alewyn!
For now, I will only add some links:

Alewyn, on 13 March 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:
... I recently published a revised edition of  'Survivors of the Great Tsunami'; under the new title of 'Chronicles from pre-Celtic Europe'; on Amazon.com.
Posted Image
In addition to my other research, I also visited a number of archaeological sites and museums in the Netherlands, France and Germany last year.

Amongst the archaeological sites were
[burial mound] De Hamert, [some finds]
[burial mound] Oss,
['Keltic' archaeological park] Glauberg,
['Keltic' archaeological park] Hochdorf,
['Keltic' museum] Heuneberg and the
European Archaeological Park at Bliesbruck-Reinheim. [...]

Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:39 AM
As for Scythians, read Chronicles of Eri (I am at p.300 of 1000 and convinced it's not a forgery, although I don't take the content as all true gospel).
Their language was completely different (and artificial) as compared to that of the Fryans (and as described by them).
It looks like they were the "prestera fon Sidon" and Fonikians (?) of the OLB.
(No time now to check the exact references.)
But somewhere more back in time they will indeed have been related somehow.

Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:45 AM
NO-ID-EA, on 02 April 2014 - 11:52 PM, said:
... in chronicles of eri , can  ur be Ur(WR) as in Mesopotamian UR ...
Wasn't that fire? Dutch: VUUR (VVVR).
But fire in Fryan is FJUR which also means four (tetrahedron is symbol for element fire).
One resemblance between Fryans and Scythians was fire worship.
The Scythian word for fire may have been derived from the Fryan "Ur-alda").

Posted 14 May 2014 - 05:25 PM
Thank you Abramelin for trying to rivive this thread.
I don't have much to say to it myself for now, but will posts some finds from the Chronicles of Eri soon (Gaal/ Gael - GOLA; Priests of Sydon; children of Feine (FINDA?)/ Phoenicians --- I haven't finished those 1000 pages yet).
From your posts, this was most interesting to me:

Abramelin, on 13 May 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:
"(...) Eustathius, the Byzantine grammarian, quotes an ancient scholiast on Iliad, II, 841, to the effect that the Pelasgians were called Dioi ('divine') because they alone of all the Greeks preserved the use of letters after the Deluge (...)"

 Posted 21 May 2014 - 03:08 AM
Abramelin, on 28 February 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:
which flood does your blog refer to?
Interesting footnote in the Chronicles of Eri, book 2/2 (p.50): "It is observable that the figure generally presented for an hostile invasion is a flood, as you may have seen in divers passages in these Chronicles, and in the Dissertation. Which instances could be given five hundred fold, was it necessary."
Fragment to which the footnote referred (p.48):
"What if a messenger be sent to Daire, to drive back the waves that threaten the land?"

gestur (Othar Winis), on 06 March 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:
Links to downloadable PDFs of the two parts (both 500+ pages): part 1 part 2

Posted 30 May 2014 - 02:35 PM
Abramelin, on 30 May 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:
Freya and Finda returned to their watch stars, accept Lyda who had none to begin with.
It does not say in OLB that Frya and Lyda RE-turned to their stars and it does not say Lyda did not have one, Lyda's just is not mentioned.

Posted 01 June 2014 - 09:17 AM
Abramelin, on 31 May 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:
Well, my point was, 'where might this idea of us (or the 'earth mothers') having a watch star have come from?'.
Where did Plato have it from?
... she was already risen to her watching star; ...
So Frya had one, and she was busy ascending to it.
No. Imagine I move to Iceland next week, not having been there before, not owning a house yet. When I have arrived, bought a house and moved in, people can say I have already moved into my (new) house.

Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:00 AM: About DOBBA - "dopen", see here .

Posted 10 June 2014 - 12:58 PM
The Puzzler, on 10 June 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:
What do you mean 'new' etymology? Do you suggest 'baptise' comes from same etymology?
What is new (as far as I know) is the relation to the verb DOBBA (to dig, delve), though the noun DOBBE (tub, dibhole, puddle).

Posted 10 June 2014 - 01:02 PM
Official etymology often refers to "proto-germanic" (or PIE) as if this is/ was a real language.
In fact it is merely an academic reconstruction, partly based on assumptions that will be proven wrong as soon as OLB is accepted as authentic.

Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:02 PM
Otharus, on 28 June 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:
Ottema translated WRDA with "oorden", but I think "waarden" (wards) would have been more correct.
Varieties of LJUDWERD:
Ljuwert [hidde/16]; 1256 CE
Ljudwerd [liko/23]; 803 CE
Ljudwardja [113/25-26] ca. 300 BCE
Ljvdwérd [143/21] ca. 250 BCE
Ljvwrd [143/22] idem
Ljvwerde [206/11] ca. 50 BCE
Posted Image
Note the undepth south-west of Texel: "Lutjeswaard"

This may very well have been the old "Ljudwardja", before it was flooded and after which nowaday Leeuwarden (Ljouwert) may have been named.

Posted 12-13 and 15 June 2014: family trees OLB, see here
Through the marriages of Friso's 4 children (and his two brothers in law who are not mentioned in the chart), part of the Fryan territories were (re-) united.
Note the repeated name-roots:
WIL-fréthe, WIL-jow, WIL-him
wich-HIRTE, swét-HIRTE, sjucht-HIRTE

Posted 19 June 2014 - 07:06 AM
The Puzzler, on 18 June 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:
Lothario masc. proper name, Italian form of Old High German Hlothari, Hludher (whence German Luther, French Lothaire), literally "famous warrior," from Old High German lut (see loud) + heri "host, army"
(...) lut might be able to have been lum - since luminosity and lit/light/licht both mean similar, could be same... lutke = lumka.....?
(...) so his home-town became renowned as a warrior maker
Lumka could indeed have been Lutka, but then it would make more sense imo to relate Lut to LJUD = people:
LJU(D) or LJV(D) in OLB  
hljóð - icelandic
ljuda - swedish
lyd - norse, danish
lui, lieden - dutch
leute - german
=> Lumkamakja = made by (the) people?

Posted 28 June 2014 - 07:50 PM
The Puzzler, on 28 June 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:
which means that hlap and softly may actually be the same root (in a roundabout way)
HLAP is dutch loop (walk, run - pronounced as 'lope') from verb:
lopen - dutch (to walk - in Belgium: to run)
laufen - german (to walk)

hlaupa - icelandic (to run)

Note that the verb has remained most original in Icelandic.

Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:39 PM
The Puzzler, on 29 June 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:
Still don't get the point really, but the link provided me some new insights. Thanks for that.
hlapa - oldfrisian
hleapan - oldenglish
hlopan - oldsaxon
hlaufan - oldgerman

hlaupa - icelandic
løpe, laupe - norse
leypa - faroese
løbe - danish
löpa - swedish (means also: to be prepared for copulation)
lopen - dutch
laufen - german
leap, lope - english
ljeppe - frisian

Although the meanings vary between to walk, run, jump, it is clear how much these languages are related and have the same origin.

Posted 05 July 2014 - 05:32 PM: Silver (JOL-) Bowl found, see here

Posted 06 July 2014 - 07:27 AM
Van Gorp, on 06 July 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:
About Lumkamakia, I have now an idea totally different from what i was looking before.
Not as much for the meaning of Lum, Loom, Leem like meanings ... that all can stand but more in the figurative meaning, contrary to the possible toponyms.
I'm not convinced 100% percent anymore we should actually look for a place called Lumkamakia.
The sentence and context goes like this
"Wodin thene aldeste hêmde to Lumka-mâkja bi thêre Ê-mude to Ast-flyland by sin eldrum t-us. Ênes was er hêrman wêst"
So Wodin was leisuring from his 'army' or soldier activities at his parents home.
"To Lumka Makja" -> om een luimke te doen -> om te luieren -> om te ontspannen -> to relax
(...) More to build a case for this:
Gent's dialect (Gent = Capital City of East Flanders):
afternoon nap/middagdutje: luimke
And from the first link on the verb "luimen" it is stated that it is only used presently as bargoens and soldierlanguage !
If we see that Gent's dialect is using 'luim-ke' (diminuitive for luim) to describe reposing, we can imagine the link between East Flanders (Ast Flyland?) en Fries Dialect.
Excellent, Van Gorp, congratulations!
This indeed seems like the best interpretation to me. 

Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:03 PM
Van Gorp, on 06 July 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:
More to build a case for this:
Gent's dialect (Gent = Capital City of East Flanders):
afternoon nap/middagdutje: luimke
After having had a better look at the text, considering the word-order, I do after all think that Lumkamakja is a geographical (place) name, but the meaning could indeed be as you suggest; a place where people (sailors?) have a rest.
Or: the name means "to make a joke", "to make fun"

Lume, luumkin = scherts, grap, plezier
source: http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...&lemmodern=luim

OLB has some examples of geographical names derived from a historical (or mythical) event (Kaat's gat, Medea's blik).
The same could be the case here.

Posted 09 July 2014 - 02:49 PM: "upanishad ~ VPPA.NI(THER).SÁT" 

Posted 09 July 2014 - 04:54 PM
Note the 6-spoke wheels.
Source: http://www.ancient.eu.com/article/238/

Religion of Indus valley civilization was a theme not found in any ancient accounts. Seals, images and other materials had been unearthed by various archaeologists. Scholars were unable to draw any inference about those people.
Well over 400 distinct Indus symbols (some say 600) had been found on seals, small tablets, or ceramic pots and over a dozen other materials, including a "signboard" that apparently once hung over the gate of the inner citadel of the Indus city of Dholavira. It was one of the largest and most prominent archaeological sites in India in the Kutch Desert Wildlife Sanctuary of Gujarat, India.

Posted Image
Banner at the North Gate of Dholavira

Posted 13 July 2014 - 08:53 AM
OLB also has the verb JOLA (yodel, bawl - modern dutch 'joelen').
But according to the schooled etymologists "joelen" is not related, but rather based on the sound it makes.

Interestingly, it also says:

Het eerste lid van de samenstelling joelfeest ‘midwinterfeest, kerstmis’ [..] heeft een andere etymologie. Het is, wrsch. via Duits Jul(fest), ontleend aan Zweeds/Deens jul ‘kerstmis’, Oudnoords jól ‘midwinterfeest’, waarvan de etymologie omstreden is.
The first part of "yulefeast" (midwinterfeast, christmas) [...] has a different etymology. It is probably based (via German "jul") on Oldnorse, Swedish/ Danish "jól", "jul", which has a controversial etymology.
I can no longer take schooled etymologists seriously. 

Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:29 PM
Van Gorp, on 13 July 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:
bar-bar just meaning quite elementary in behaviour (savage, uncultivated for some), without complexities for others.
Second part of support less, the word 'bar' has a general meaning in dutch, possible germanic root 'bar' (see bar, baar, barely, bare naked)
All meaning naked, open.
Interestingly, the (old) dutch verb "baren" can also mean to scream, or to rage, rave.
source: http://etymologieban...refwoord/baren2 

Posted 31 July 2014 - 08:04 AM
flashman7870 (Abramelin), on 31 July 2014 - 06:03 AM, said:
Nice 6-spoke wheel indeed.
Posted Image 

Posted 12-13 and 16 August 2014: "Vril-ya and Fraja in Aryan occultism"

Posted 14 August 2014 - 07:36 PM
Atlantisresearch (Oliver D. Smith), on 14 August 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:
Its confusing why the Nazis took an interest and defended the Oera Linda book hoax.
Some may have liked it (Wirth, Himmler) but the Nazi authorities publicly rejected it in 1934 and Wirth was silenced. Himmler financed secret investigations till 1942.

Arthur Hübner (1885-1937), a nazi-linguist, wrote in 1934 ("Herman Wirth und die Ura-Linda-chronik", p. 35):
"Die Ura Linda- Chronik ist nicht nur demokratisch, führerfeindlich, pazifistisch in ihrer Grundeinstellung, sie ist im ganzen ein Machwerk ohne Saft und Kraft..."
"Not only is the OLB democratic, führer- [Hitler-] inimical, and pacifistic in its foundations, as a whole it is a worthless fabrication ["without juice and power"]."

Menno ter Braak (1902-1940), a dutch author and anti-Fascist, wrote in the same year ("Arthur Hübner contra Herman Wirth"):
"Dat men het Oera Linda Boek in een goede vertaling en met een paedagogisch commentaar in het programma van het M.O. opneme, ter voorlichting van de jeugd!"
"The OLB should be added to the program of secondary education, in a good translation and with pedagogic comments, to educate the youth!" 

Posted 15 August 2014 - 11:08 AM
Atlantisresearch (Oliver D. Smith), on 14 August 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:
The fact the OLB describes the Finns as a "yellow race"...
It doesn't.
The mythical primal mother FINDA is described as yellow, but the Finns (FINNA), although described as having come from the east, derive their name from the word FIN:


Sandbach, p. 73:
This people have not even a name;  
but we call them Finns,
because although all the [their] festivals are melancholy and bloody,
they are so formal [FIN]  
that we are inferior to them in that respect.

Posted 15 August 2014 - 12:24 PM
Atlantisresearch (Oliver D. Smith), on 14 August 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:
... just more evidence it is a 19th century hoax.
Originally it was assumed that as the Finnish language was related to Sámi – spoken by tribes perceived as Mongolian in origin – and as many Finns supposedly looked ‘Eastern, ’that Finns were ‘Mongoloid’ and this view remained relatively unchallenged until the beginning of the twentieth century.
Have you actually read the study you quoted from?
The quote is followed by (my underlining):

Since that point, and particularly since the 1990s, it has been increasingly argued that Finns should be seen as ‘European’ but with a considerably more ‘eastern’ influence than many other Europeans.

That the original assumption was challenged, does not mean it was refuted.

Another significant quote from the introduction:

...  their language is related to Hungarian, a string of languages across northern Russia and, some believe, Mongolian and even Japanese (see Gleason 1969). They are not quite Eastern yet they are not quite Western (...)

And from conclusion:

Many scholars agree that the question of the Finnish race remains unanswered. I would argue that on structural level, drawing upon a modern myth, they should [be] categorised as ‘Battling to be White’ which may also be the case with a number of other peripheral European nations  in terms of racial scholarship.

Posted 17 August 2014 - 08:06 PM
Both in Greece and in India, important places (region, city) have names that are similar to OLB's TEXLAND (or current Dutch Texel, pronounced "Tessel"):
Greece: Thessaly

Northern India: Taxila
"By some accounts, Taxila was considered to be amongst the earliest universities in the world."
The official etymologies are questionable, imo.

Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:21 PM: "NÉF.TÜNIS ~ Neptune" 

Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:03 AM
Gingitsune, on 27 August 2014 - 04:31 AM, said:
But back to the 2nd and 3rd centuries, Tunis was a simple town, unrelated to far away Sousse and Chebba where the three mosaic you present where found.
Sousse and Chebba are not that far away (Sousse is between Tunis and Chebba, that are 250 km. apart). How can you say they are not (culturally) related?
So Tunisia is named after Tunis, which may have been unimportant in the time you refer to, but it had been destroyed by the Romans and was in fact much older:

"In the 2nd millennium BC a town, originally named Tunes, was founded by Berbers and also over time occupied by Numidians. In 146 BC, the Romans destroyed Tunis (along with Carthage)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunis

How did Tunes get its name?

It is not impossible that it is from Nef-/ Nep-Tunis, a naval hero named (kinsman) 'Tony', who was deified, as described in OLB.

Anyway, the argument (most often used) that OLB's etymology would be sheer nonsense, is invalid.

Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:30 PM
Gingitsune, on 27 August 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:
Culturally related or not, if Tunis was the origine of Neptune, you'd find Neptune temples much closer to Tunis proper.
Not if they were destroyed by Romans around 150 BCE.
And to be exact: I don't suggest Tunis was the origin of Neptune, but rather named after him. 

Posted 02 September 2014 - 07:53 AM
flashman7870 (Abramelin), on 29 August 2014 - 02:21 AM, said:
I'm reading through the old thread, and found an issue that appeared unresolved, at least by the 220s of pages. Apparently at one point Frisia was known as "The Land of the Alans", which seems odd since the Alans never even made it to the Netherlands.
Good to hear that the old threat is still of inspiration to you.
The Alans are not mentioned in the OLB.

How do you know they never made it to the NL?
They could have been here without there being a source about it.
We only have very few sources.
Or the source that claimed that Frisia was once "land of the Alans" could be wrong.
There is much pseudo-history around. 

Posted 17 September 2014 - 07:32 PM
Comments on a fragment from "De Gemaskerde God" (2004) by Goffe Jensma (PhD thesis about the Oera Linda Book).

Page 157, about the Over de Linden family that owned the manuscript:
"From 558 BCE till 1938 CE every head of the family would have inherited the manuscript from his predecessor and passed it on again to his descendant. Self-evidently, this is a more than questionable scenario."

Original Dutch text: "Vanaf 558 voor Christus tot 1938 na Christus zou ieder hoofd van de familie telkens het handschrift van zijn voorganger hebben gekregen en weer hebben overgedragen aan zijn navolger. Vanzelfsprekend is dit een meer dan betwijfelbare gang van zaken."

1. If there would have been one copy in one lineage only, it would indeed be remarkable (though not impossible) that this copy survived for so long.
But there will probably have been many copies around and in that case there was more chance that one of them survived and showed up. Who knows how many more there still are in private collections? (Considering what happened to Cornelis Over de Linden, I would be reluctant to bring it to 'specialists', if I had something similar in my possession.)


2. It is not necessarily so, that the known copy was saved in one family lineage from Adela 'Oera Linda' till Cornelis Over de Linden. Imagine that a random family had it in its possession in (for example) the 17th century, and that the owner was able to read (parts of) it. He may have adopted the name "Over de Linden", inspired by the manuscript.

Posted 19 September 2014 - 06:17 PM
Comment on another fragment (p.145):
"The creation process probably did not take place in a continuous period, but in stages. The last efforts were clearly the hardest, because as the text approached its completion, concentration slacked and hastily the last bits were made up, translated and written down. As the book progresses, its quality decreases in several ways (style, trimness, concentration, structure). [...] It seems obvious that this was partly caused by time pressure and haste."

Original Dutch text: "Het maakproces heeft waarschijnlijk niet in een aaneengesloten periode plaatsgevonden, maar in etappes. De laatste loodjes wogen duidelijk het zwaarst, want naarmate de tekst zijn voltooiing naderde, verslapte de concentratie en werd er met behoorlijke haast een en ander bedacht, vertaald en afgeschreven. Naarmate het vordert, neemt in allerlei opzichten (stijl, netheid, concentratie, structuur) de kwaliteit van het boek af. De oorspronkelijke bedoeling zou dus heel goed geweld kunnen zijn aangedaan. Het ligt voor de hand dat tijdsdruk en haast daarbij een rol hebben gespeeld."

According to Jensma, the OLB was created by Over de Linden, Haverschmidt and Verwijs.

If they had finished the manuscript in a hurry, then why did Verwijs delay its translation and publication by more than two years?

See letter fragments:

Othar Winis, on 06 January 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:
... fragments from letters by Verwijs (...):
1) 1867 june 28 - to J.F. Jansen
"This morning I copied a whole speech which is not all clear to me yet, but which, as far as I could judge from the copy, is most curious."

2) 1867 oct. 13 - to C. Over de Linden (OdL)
"As I said, I was overjoyed with the discovery and told many of my friends. Part of it was quite easy to understand and, although seeming to be of younger age, not different from the language of the Oldfrisian laws from the 13th and 14th century. But there were also fragments, that I didn't and still don't understand and that will take much meticulous study, before I can clarify them."

3) 1867 oct. 16 - to OdL
"I really can't promise you the translation of a separate part, as there are difficulties in it, that may take weeks of study."

4) 1867 oct. 19 - to OdL
"It certainly is a manuscript from one of your ancestors - which means your family is very old - , that was copied many times and by all means deserves to become known. [...] The importance of the manuscript will give the ancient name of the Oera Linda's a radiance, brighter than any of the oldest noble families."

5) 1868 nov. 21 - to OdL
"The case is of enough interest to me, to finally dive into it properly."

6) 1869 may 17 - to OdL
"Then I hope to take the whole with me in this summer holiday and start translating."

7) 1869 nov. 11 - to OdL
"I finally return the manuscript to you, but you will be sorry that the translation is still missing. [...] Here and there translation is very easy and it can be done at first sight; but other parts contain difficulties, that take much time and study. But I hope to be able to help you soon now."

8) 1869 nov. 11 - to J. Winkler
"Here and there translation is easy, but there are also quite some difficulties and unknown words. I know that if I would start, I would not rest before I have solved them, and that way I would spend much too much time on it. [...] The case is of much interest to me, so I don't want to fully withdraw from it. [...] Such an etymological quest is very much of my liking, [...] It's odd that it contains some very old words and that also the forms point at a previous linguistic era, while other expressions sound so very modern." [Verwijs could not (or hardly) imagine that some expressions were old, which does not prove that they could not in fact have neen old.]
This is just one of many examples of how Jensma's theory does not make sense. 

Posted 22 September 2014 - 08:11 AM
Van Gorp, on 21 September 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:
when exactly did Jesus = Fo = Buda = Krisen lived in Kashmir following OLB?
On 16 june 2011, I wrote:
Most historiographic stories in the OLB start with their dating:
p.1 "30 years after the Folkmother was killed..."
p.6 "it was 7 x 7 years after Fàsta was appointed..."
p.47 "before the bad times came..."
p.50 "101 years after Aldland had sank..."
p.62 "563 years after Aldland had sank..."
p.68 "10 years after Jon was brought away..."
p.72 "when Hellenja or Minerva had died..."
p.75 "in the year 1005 after Aldland sank this was written..."
p.79 "... 1602 years after Aldland perished"
p.119 "two years after Gosa became Mother..."
p.120 "after we had been 12 x 100 and 2 x 12 years at the Five Waters..."
p.130 "in the times that our land sank down"
And once at the end:
p.117 "that happened 1888 years after Atland had sank"
If the Jes-us story really happened "when Atland was submerged", the author could have easily started the story with "In the time that Atland was submerged...", but she starts with "1600 years ago...", and you [Puzzler] suggest that she did this to mention when she wrote the story down.
This does not make sense.

She aims at dating the time when Jes-us lived and the point of reference is "when Atland sank", not when she wrote it, because we (the readers from the future) don't know when she wrote it.

From the context it is clear (and all translators agree about this) that the phrase should be read as:

"It was 1600 years after Atland had sank, and at that time..." etcetera
... so my answer is ca. 600 BCE.

Posted 13 September 2014 - 09:11 AM
flashman7870 (Abramelin), on 13 September 2014 - 03:32 AM, said:
if the OLB was real (which I thinkit isn't) ...
What is/are the main reason(s) for your doubt?

Posted 22 September 2014 - 08:37 AM
flashman7870 (Abramelin), on 21 September 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:
Lack of any Iron- Bronze Age Burchts as described in the OLB
There will be many old sources about buildings or cities that no longer exist, or of which no traces have been found (yet).
The date of the Flood just so happening to co-incide with the date of the Flood given in Frisian Almanacs
Those Frisian Almanacs may have had the manuscript or a related document as their source.
Coincidences in OLB Geography and local Frisian, Dutch and Northern Germangeography
Peoples who move around often take their toponyms with them. Many examples in the US, South Africa and Australia. Most well known "New Amsterdam", later renamed "New York".
No other incidence of OLB script
There are more authentic ancient sources in a (thus far) unique script.
It's Nehalennia to Nyhalenia
Spelling variety in old sources is most common.
No big, massive disasters around 2194 BC- only parts of gradual changes, no volcanos or shifting of landmasses.
I am not a geologist, but Alewyn Raubenheimer is and he would strongly disagree with you. Have you read his book (3rd edition)?
No area that seems approapriate for 'Atland' to be in
Atland, according to the OLB means "old land". This can refer to any lost land. It is obvious that much land (coastal areas, islands) got lost as a result of natural disasters. OLB's Aldland does not have to refer to the same location as Plato's Atlantis.
Language (Bedrvm, lol)
Would you agree that the verb BEDA and the noun RVM might be 2000+ years old?
If so, why could a combination of these words not be that old.
If not, why not?

Lack of any flood found at the date cited in the beggining (Okke, Min Svn)
It is possible that this flood was not recorded or that Okke's father was refering to a metaphorical flood (invasion).
Some questions for you:

When do you suppose the manuscript was created and with what motive?

Why has (recent) years of paper research not resulted in a clear answer as to how old the paper is?

Posted 22 September 2014 - 11:37 AM
The Puzzler, on 22 September 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:
It does not say: "It was 1600 years after Atland
The best translation is not always the most literal one.
Your interpretation just does not make sense, because all over the OLB, the point of reference is the sinking of Aldland.
If the Jes-us story happened around that time, it would have been in 'year zero', when Aldland sank.

If the author had meant that it happened 1600 years ago (the year of writing the text being the point of reference), we would have to know in what year it was written.

Posted 22 September 2014 - 12:02 PM
Othar Winis, on 17 September 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:
Comments on a fragment from "De Gemaskerde God" (2004) by Goffe Jensma (PhD thesis about the Oera Linda Book).
Another fragment, p.121:
"How is it even possible, that the Oera Linda-book was never recognised as the religious allegory that I described in the previous chapters? A primal cause seems to be the complex procedure that is followed in the book. Very much is asked of the reader, perhaps too much. He must constantly keep dispelling illusions and it takes effort and perseverance to finally discover the modernist message behind the historical nonsense."

Original Dutch text: "Hoe kan het, dat het Oera Linda-boek eigenlijk nooit is gelezen als de religieuze allegorie die ik er in de vorige hoofdstuken in zag? Een eerste oorzaak lijkt het ingewikkelde procédé dat in het boek is gevolgd. Er wordt van de lezer zeer veel gevraagd, te veel misschien. Hij moet voortdurend illusies blijven doorprikken en het vergt inspanning en volharding om uiteindelijk achter de historische kolder de modernistische boodschap te ontwarren."

If it were not the symptom of a self-destructive, collective mental illness, it would almost be funny that Jensma does not see that it is rather the other way around:
That he (and his fellow pseudo-skeptics) must constantly keep creating illusions in order to avoid the conclusion that the manuscript might be authentic after all.


His alleged 'historical nonsense' is the result of his own very liberal and questionable interpretations, for example that GÉRT.PIRE.HIS TOGHATER would refer to the medieval daughter of Great Pier Donia and that JES.US (a.k.a. BUDA) refers to Jesus of Nazereth.

Posted 23 September 2014 - 10:19 AM
Van Gorp, on 22 September 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:
Like you said "Wiljo copied it ca 300 BC from the writings of Dela aka Hellenja"
But you think also "who is probably not the same as Adela".
"and probably not the same as Hellenia", the old writings of Hellenia Wiljow is referring to.
The confusion is caused by Ottema's erroneous transliteration and translation: "thet Hêlênja bok" => "het Hellenia boek".

The text reads:
p.[134/04] Wiljo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .

["Jes.us" story, signed by "DEL.Á TONOMATH. HEL.LÉNJA"

[Frana's testament]

[Gosa's prophecy]


So Wiljo saved 3 books, that were not copied, nor added to the manuscript:


And she copied 3 texts that were added to the manuscript:


If Delá a.k.a. Hellénja would have been the same as Ádela, why would Wiljo not have simply written Ádela?


Posted 25 September 2014: new transliteration

Posted 1 October 2014, 08:58 AM
flashman7870 (Abramelin), on 29 September 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:
This conversation is incapable of moving on- and it's because there is so little to work with. There is only one example of OLB language and history, and that is the OLB itself.
Little too work with? There's much more than you can handle.
The problem is that most here only work with one or two translations.
Study the original text.
It is way too huge to just have been a joke or experiment.

Posted 1 October: Ћ = TH or HT

01 October 2014

Ћ = TH or HT

The OLB letter "Ћ" usually stands for "TH", but sometimes for "HT". Some examples (note: always following "C"):






I also found one example (so far) of T and H being spelled separately: