Forum #45 (4 jan. - 2 apr. 2015)

see post 10 March

 4 January: see blog post: SWÍGA - to keep silent, to not speak
14 January: see blog post: SWIKA ~ to swing, sway, swift, etc.

Posted 19 January 2015 - 11:58 AM

Just a fun-fact:
Disney's Atlantis (2001) used the 'Fryan' letter "A":

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:06 AM

Abramelin, on 23 January 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

FOT [...] still has nothing to do with [...] "fout" in Dutch.

How can you be so sure?


25 January: new video part 4b in four languages, see here
11 February: see blog post SWART, BRUN ~ black, swarthy, sordid, brown
19 February: see blog post STÉN ~ stone, brick, rock, gem

Posted 28 February 2015 - 04:54 PM

Abramelin, on 26 February 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:

FOT would be more correct (Volney's "Les Ruines"), but it still has nothing to do with "false", or "fout" in Dutch.
FOT is the name the Chinese and/or Tibetans used for Buddha.... or BODdhisatva. And even BODdhisatva doesn't mean "false"...

If you can proove that "Boddhisatva" means "false", you have a point, but you'll have a hard time trying.

"Boddhisatva" does not have to mean "false", for FO or FOT to mean "false" or "fout".

Can you prove FOT has nothing to do with Dutch "fout"?

Posted 28 February 2015 - 09:06 PM

Van Gorp, on 07 February 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:

[...] i still wonder how on earth Hidde could have related his years of living and writing with the timeline according Altland sank (1256 after Christ=3349 after Altland).
Following the note of Liko some 450 years earlier, that connection could not be derived.

Good point.
Two possible explanations:
- Liko did not know the Atland year numbering system, but his descendant Hidde did, later (through other sources).
or:
- Liko did not mention the Atland system, because in his time it was still so common that he did not feel he needed to, but Hidde later added it because it became less used.

Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:53 PM

The Puzzler, on 11 February 2015 - 06:06 AM, said:

This article is from 2010 but adds more weight to the idea that the North Sea area was indeed a vast community of sailors with trade and movements going on...

Nice proof of early trade indeed, but interesting how the archaeologists assume so much, for example:
- That the tin was brought to Britain instead of from.
- That the ship was rowed not sailed, although no remains of the ship were left.

Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:32 PM

Another OLB word explained:

[004/04] (Adela's speech)
IK WÉT WEL THÀT J THÉRMITHA ANDA BRVD SITTE

Ottema (1872):
Ik weet wel dat gij daarmede aan den grond zit (aground, stuck)

Sandbach (1876):
I know that you are in a difficulty about it

Wirth (1933):
Ich weiß wohl, daß ihr damit in der Verlegenheit seid (embarrassment, perplexity, quandary, awkwardness)

Jensma (2006; added in footnote that source was unknown and that he translated it based on context):
Ik weet wel dat u daarmee in de penarie zit (perplexity, abashment, embarrassment)

Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal (WNT):
bruid ook BRUIT, en in verbogen vorm BRUITE, znw. vr. (?); mv. bruiten. Een woord dat reeds in de middeleeuwen, in Brabant, voorkomt (...), en dat zeker wel verwant is met Brui en een of meer der ald. genoemde woorden. Denkelijk zijn de onderstaande bett. ontstaan uit eene meer algemeene: draf, vuile vloeistof, poespas, wellicht: water waarin iets gekookt, waarmede iets klaargemaakt is; (...)
1. Draf, spoeling, varkensvoeder. (liquid pigfood of leavings)
2. Vloeibare beer, menschendrek (liquid muck, human dung)
3. In de haringvisscherij (...) vuile pekel (in herring fishery: dirty brine)

So, a translation closer to the original meaning would be, as we say:

"... you are in (deep) shit with that" (situation)
Most likely related dutch words:
brui, verbruien (mess, mess up, waste)
prut, verprutsen (mudd, mess up, waste)

(prithvi in sanskrit is earth, soil - possibly related)

Fragments with the verb and words derived from it:

THRVCH WAN.KÉTHINGA WISTON HJA ALLE TO WISA ÀND TO VRBRUDA

HWA FON VS FOLK THÉR.ET ALSA ÀRG VRBRUD HÉDE

THÀT VRBRÛDE ÀND VRBASTERDE SLACHT

HJA NILDE NAVT BIGRIPPA THAT HJARA SÉDE VRBRÛDE KOSTE

THJU TÁLE THÉRA ÁST.SKÉN.LANDAR IS THRVCH THA WLA MAGJARA VRBRÛD

VRBRÛDING VSRA RÉNE TÁLE

VSA VRBRUDA BROTHARUM ÀND HJARA SALT.ÁTHUM

THA JUTTAR WÉRON SUNT LÔNG VRBRUD

MITH HULPE FON THA VRBRÛDA FÁMNA

THA HÉMNISSA FON HJARA VRBRUDA LÉRE

Also related the verb "brouwen": to make soup, beer or cook anything somehow liquid.

LOL official ('scientific') dutch etymologists have no clue.

They think the word "prut" is derived from the sound a porridge makes when it cooks or something falls into it... (I'm not kidding!).

Quote

Klanknabootsing van het geluid dat een weke massa of brij kan maken als die gist of kookt, als er iets in valt, enz.; de oorspr. betekenis is dus wrsch. ‘substantie die het geluid prut kan voortbrengen’.

http://www.etymologi.../trefwoord/prut

=> "so the original meaning is probably a substance that can produce the sound prut"

...?!

Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:35 AM

Abramelin, on 05 March 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

... as long as it isn't (modern) French

Why would modern (spoken) French not be similar to the old 'French' of the 6th C. BCE?
And if it was, the Fryas may well have known much of that language.
What FO/FOT meant to the Fryas (perhaps mockingly), may not have been the same as what it meant to the 'Buddhists' of that time.
Also, the concept of reappropriation (geuzennaam in dutch: people using a name proudly, that was originally mocking) or the other way around (a proud name used mockingly by others) is desceribed at least twice in the OLB: with Kàlta and with the Druids.

I don't need to prove that it was possibly like I said, because I don't claim it was certainly so, and you can't prove it was impossible.

Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:47 AM

Van Gorp, on 05 March 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

In short, makes the connection with the verb "broddelen" (used also in West and East Flanders) in the meaning of doing sloppy work or even to ruin.

I saw a link to "brothel" (dutch bordeel, french bordel) here, but according to etymology, that comes from borde: farmeres house, wooden cabin

Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:52 AM

Van Gorp, on 05 March 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

... that the meaning of FOT was known by the priests, but not by the common people afterwards who called the person FOT while paying tribute or feeling sympathy for him.

So that is what OLB says: the priests in Kashmir (later to China) talked a language where FO/FOT has the meaning "FALSE", but in time this meaning is lost in the contemporary languages there.
Why does it still has this meaning in French/Dutch/German/English?

Excellent VG, I totally agree.

Note: fou/ folle in French means mad, wild

OLB: TO, JO has in english become "to you" (same sound, in dutch "oe", german "u"), so FO may have sounded not like "faux", but more like "fou"?) ... Kung Fu?!

Posted 06 March 2015 - 11:27 AM

The website of Tresoar, the archive that guards the OLB, www.oeralindaboek.nl, finally has a new functionality for browsing through copies of the original pages: http://images.tresoar.nl/OLB/

The resolution is not very good.

Posted 06 March 2015 - 05:57 PM

flashman7870, on 06 March 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

Because French didn't exist prior to the middle ages. Prior to Roman and Frankish occupation they spoke Gaullish.

That's why I wrote 'French'.
There's no reason to assume that spoken 'Gaulish' is so much more different from modern French, than Oldfrisian differs from the Dutch-Frisian-Flemmish dialects.

Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:20 PM

Abramelin, on 06 March 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

It's too much of a coincidence that C. over de Linden had that book in his possession...

Not at all. He was interested in anything that could confirm what was in his manuscript. How do you know he had it before Ottema made his translation?

Quote

I also said that the creators of the OLB using FO instead of FOT was not a slip of the pen, but a hint.

How could you possibly know?

Quote

FO/FAUX does indeed mean 'false' in French, a language - like you already said - that didn't even exist around the time the OLB was supposedly  put onto paper.

The language did not exist under that name, but was not invented at the moment they started using that name.

8 March see blog post STEMLÉTH ~ stammer

Posted 10 March 2015 - 06:56 PM

[062/08]
563 JÉR NÉI ALD.LAND SVNKEN IS. SAT HIR EN WITE BURCH.FÁM.
MIN.ERVA WAS HIRA NÔMA. THRVCH THA STJÛRAR NY.HEL.LÉNJA TONÔMATH.
THIS TONÔMA WAS GOD KÉREN.
HWAND THA RÉD THÉR HJU LÉNADE WAS NY ÀND HEL BVPPA ALLE ÔTHERUM.
563 Years after Aldland sank, a wise/ white burchfám resided here.
Min-erva was her name, surnamed Ny-hel-lénja by the steersmen.
This name was well chosen,
because the rede she lended (lénade) was new (ny) and bright (hel), superior to all others.

Inspired by OLB?
Poster (1918) of the Dutch union for Woman Suffrage: "Let me in, I bring new light." (Image at top of this post)

Posted 11 March 2015 - 02:39 PM

On page 44 of the original manuscript, line 28-29, one and a half line is erased (made black) by the copyist. With some effort, one can read part of it: "... VPPA WAGAR FON THÉRE BURCH LJVD-...DA WRITTEN" (written on the walls of the burch Ljud-...).

The next page starts with an introduction of something that was written "INUT THA WÀGAR THÉRE WÁRABURCH, so it's not that the copyist started and then decided to wait for the next page. Did he leave out a part he didn't like or think important?

I'd say it looks like that.


13 March see blog post: "The Edge of the World", M. Pye ~ quotes

Posted 17 March 2015 - 03:59 PM

Passing Time, on 17 March 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

... and Frolle he sloh his fo
... here Fo = Foe , meaning enemy

Indeed, good find.
Yes whoever wrote the text about BUDA a.k.a. FO meant false, but that does not have to mean it only meant false.
Many words in OLB have several meanings.
The meanings false and foe are not that different.
So the name could have been interpreted by some as "false", by others as "foe".

I don't see why this is such a big deal. It's only important for Abramelin because it fits into his France-revolution theory.


25 March see blog post: FINDA WAS GÉL?

Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:30 PM

On page 72, copyist Hidde Oera Linda left four lines empty on top of the page.

The only possible explanation I can think of is that his original had an illustration there that he wanted to copy later, but in the end he never got to do it.

Posted 01 April 2015 - 09:15 AM

Passing Time, on 31 March 2015 - 11:46 PM, said:

proto germanic druhtinaz

"Proto germanic" is nor was a language, although many reason as if it were.
It is a reconstruction.

1 April see blog post BIDROGA ~ betray, deceive, cheat

Posted 01 April 2015 - 03:49 PM

The Puzzler, on 01 April 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

I don't think bidriv equates to bidriaga/bedrog

No, BIDRIV on itself is like Dutch noun "bedrijf" from verb "bedrijven" - to do, make, commit, perpetrate.

In combination with DROCHTEN, it is litterally something like the committing of idolatry.

Ottema and Sandbach interpreted this as "bedrog" and "deception" respectively.

Posted 02 April 2015 - 12:00 PM

Just some notes.

The common word for child (both singular and plural) in OLB is BÀRN or BERN. (See blog post.)

This word is still used in N-European languages:
barn (child, children) - norse, swedish, danish (plur. børn), icelandic (plur. börn)
bern (child, children) - frisian

But in one fragment the word KINDAR (children - German Kinder, Dutch kinderen) is used twice.

[126/29] Ljudgért
N.AST MIN KINDAR NAVT SJAN [...] THA.K SINA KINDAR WÉI.BROCH HÀV
Have you not seen my children? [...] because I have lost his children

In one fragment KINDLIK (kindly) is used:

[120/31] Ljudgért
AFTERNÉI KÉMER TO HIM. SÉR KINDLIK SNAKKANDE*
Later he came to him, speaking* very kindly

(* Note: snakke still means to talk in Norse. The word got lost in this meaning in Dutch and Frisian.)


2 April see blog post NG-letter ~ separate N-G ~ finger