λόγος <= LOGHA => LVX

Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:52 PM

The Old-Greek word λόγος (logos) is "an important term in philosophy, psychology, rhetoric, and religion". (wikipedia/Logos)

It is still used in words ending with -logy (biology etc.), logic, logarithm, etc.

I suspect that it is related to the Old-Frisian word LOGHA (flame).

[flame]
logi - icelandic, oldnorse
loga, logha - oldfrisian

[light]
ljós - icelandic
lys, ljos - danish, norse
ljus - swedish
ljocht - frisian
lux - latin

The flame is associated with the tongue.

Vlam: "Min of meer tongvormig, of als zoodanig gedacht of voorgesteld zichtbaar verbrandingsverschijnsel..." (http://gtb.inl.nl)
(=> "more or less tongue-shaped...)

vlam [tongvormig verbrandingsverschijnsel] (P.A.F. van Veen en N. van der Sijs (1997), Van Dale Etymologisch woordenboek)
(=> again: "tongue-shaped ..."

In OLB it is used as LOGHA at the following pages/lines:

[049/22]
[066/07]
[082/32]
[084/16]
[084/23]
[120/27]
[162/14] 2x

Compare relation tongue/ speech: (Latin) LINGUA - language, tongue.
In Dutch it is common metaphor to say "flames licked ..." (vlammen likten ...).

Classic etymology relates logos to the verb legein - to speak.

In Dutch we use liegen (past: loog) for to lie. 

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Posted by Abramelin 23 October 2012 - 01:51 PM

 

Old Dutch: liegon
Old Saxon: liogan
Middle Low German: legen
Old High German: liogan
New High Herman: lügen
Old Frisian:  liāga
New Frisian: lige
Old English: lēogan
New English: lie
Old Norse: ljúga
New Swedish: ljuga
Gotic: liugan

Old Church Slavonic:lŭgati
Russian: lgat
Lithuanian:  lugóti (= to request)

Related Dutch verb: lokken (= to lure)
Related Dutch word: loochenen (= to deny)

http://www.etymologi...refwoord/liegen

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:09 PM

I would like to add the consideration that what λόγος (logos; the Word, reason) was in our culture (which is based on Greco-Christian thinking), the FODDIK (eternal, sacred fire, with its LOGHA; flames) seems to have been for the Fryans (as desribed in the OLB).
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Posted by Abramelin 23 October 2012 - 05:23 PM

 

I had to think of another thing: the Celtic god LUG.

The etymology of Lugdunum is a latinization of the Gaulish place name Lugodunon. Gaulish was the predominant language of the region when conquered by the Romans. While dunon means hill fort, the source of Lug is uncertain. The most commonly offered meaning is the Celtic god named Lug, whose messenger was the crow (lugus), and who was associated with the cock (rooster), ultimately to become the symbol of France. Most references to Mercurius in Gaul really refer to Lug, as he was the Celtic god that the Romans considered to be Mercury (see interpretatio graeca for more about this practice). Lug was popular in Ireland and Britain, but there is no evidence of his cult or worship in Lugdunum, except for the apparent use of crows as an early symbol of the city. An alternative derivation is that lug refers to the Celtic word for light (a cognate of Latin lux and English light).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugdunum

The exact etymology of Lugus is unknown and contested. The Proto-Celtic root of the name, *lug-, is generally believed to have been derived from one of several different Proto-Indo-European roots, such as *leug- "black", *leuǵ- "to break",[4] and *leugʰ- "to swear an oath", It was once thought that the root may be derived from Proto-Indo-European *leuk- "to shine", but there are difficulties with this etymology and few modern scholars accept it as being possible (notably because Proto-Indo-European *-k- never produced Proto-Celtic *-g-).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugus

A rooster calling at the dawn, a crow as a spiritual 'messenger' in many cultures around the globe..

LUG, seen by the Romans as no other god but their Mercury, the god of (also) speech, and communication in general. messages, writing, and so on.

Then a (possible but disputed) connection with bright, shining and light.

And last but not least, Overwijn (the third writer to publish a book, including a translation, about the OLB in 1941/1951) who tried to explain many words and names in the OLB using Celtic.
======

It makes sense to me:
foddik = fire = flames (tongues) = light = inspiration = messages = words = communication, etc.

LOGHA'S magic

when you look into a flame long enough it will turn into a tongue and start to speak

imagine long dark and quiet nights, no books, radio, tv, internet

act during the day
reflect during the night

I bet many great ideas started by looking at the moon, the stars and into flames at night.

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Posted by Van Gorp 25 October 2012 - 01:18 AM

Interesting, first feeling is "How to reconcile the meaning of (sun)light (of the truth) with the lie"
-> Blinding light, we can't see clear.  Laaiend enthusiast zijn we dan.

Liegen, loochenen, lokken -> verblinden.
Leuk is aan-lokkelijk: we get attracted by the light it transmits.  But sometimes also blinded by it.

Other expressions: Liegen dat em zwart ziet (or he's lieing untill his nose becomes black or smoke above his head, from fire offcourse)

Alok: Indian name for Light (Hel-lig, Al Hoog, Halo).
Some other linguisitc connections (maybe allready mentionned, but it's amusing)

op-lichten: giving light but also to cheat
op-luchten: dat licht op, zuiverend, make pure

er licht/lucht over gaan, doodleuk, luchtig, een klucht -> joke, jokken, liegen
de luchter/luster: the holder of candles -> met veel luister gebracht -> erin geluisd

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:47 AM

More about LOGHA (flame), the probable origin of both lux (the light) and logos (the word).

~

TNZN - Taalatlas van Noord- en Zuid-Nederland

Etymologisch dialectenwoordenboek (1996), A.A. Weijnen

~

Westfries woordenboek (1984) Jan Pannekeet
(Dictionary of Westfrisian dialect)

loef, znw. de/'t
1. Loefzijde
2. Zwarte walm of aanslag van o.a. een petroleumlamp of -stel.
Zegsw. teugen de loef in strouke, tegen de haren in strijken.
- Teugen de loef in weze, tegen de draad in zijn, dwars zijn.

loeg, znw. 't. Verouderde variatie van loef 2.

loege, w.w. Verouderde variatie van loeve, zie aldaar.

loeve, w.w. Ook: walmen, loef afgeven. Vgl. loef. / 't Lichie loeft.

~

In OLB (original page/ line nrs.)

[010/25]
THJU LOFT WÀRT SWART ÀND NÍLOF FON TÁRA TO STIRTANE

[010/29]
BLIXEN SKRÉF AN.THÀT LOFT.RVM. WÁK.

[012/11]
FJUWER THINGA SEND TO JVWE NOT JÉVEN.
MITH NÁMA. LOFT. WÉTER. LÁND ÀND FJUR.

[026/06]
SEND THÉR SVM THRVCH THENE FYAND FAT
ÀND KVMATH HJA TO BÀK
SA MOT MÀN HJAM FÉR FON THÀT KÀMP OF FORA.
HWAND HJA MACHTON FRY LÉTEN WÉSA BY ÀRGE LOFTUM
ÀND THAN NE MÜGON HJA HJARA LOFTA NAVT NI HALDA
ÀND TACH ÉRLIK BILÍWA.

[049/16]
LOFT WÀRTH ALTHUS DROV ÀND DIMME.

[068/30]
MIN.ERVA SÉIDE
HALD OF HWAND HIR IS THJU LOFT ÔLANGNE VRPEST
THRVCH THA PRESTERA.

[119/06]
THES NACHTES SKÁTON HJA BARN.PILA ANDA LOFT.

[201/19]
THÀT FOLK WÉRMITH HI WITH THA SALT.ÁTHUM THERA GOLUM KÀMPED HÉDE
HÉD.ER UT.A SAXANA.MARKUM LVKTH
MITH LOFTE FON GRÁTE HÉRA.RÁVE ÀND BUT.

Also: LOV / LOVE as used in OLB can be related.

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 03:27 PM

Van Gorp, on 26 October 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Maybe we can add Locus (location, space, open ruimte) besides Lux, Logos [...]

From LOGA / LOGHA (flame/ fire) to LOGE (lodge, location, camp, place to live)

[048/15]
BUTA ÀND BIHALVA HÉDON VSA STJURAR ÀND KÁPLJVD MÉNI LOGE
ANDA HÉIND KRÉKELANDA ÀND TO LYDJA.

[Ottema/ Sandbach p.69]
Bovendien hadden onze zeelieden en kooplieden menige loods (factorij)
in de heinde Krekalanden (Italie) en in Lydia.
Moreover, our sailors and merchants had many factories
among the distant Krekalanders and in Lydia.

[059/30]
HI WROCHTE THAT TÜNIS BI THÉRE MVDE FON.T.FLÍ.MAR EN LOGE BVWA MACHTE.

[Ottema/ Sandbach p.85]
hij bewerkte dat Teunis bij de mond van het Flymeer een pakhuis bouwen mocht.
he induced Teunis to build a warehouse at the mouth of the Flymeer.

Ottema and Sandbach translated loods/ pakhuis and factory/ warehouse, but camp or lodge would have been correct too.

French: loger = to make a camp
English: lodge
Middle English: logge

A home, a place to stay (if only for a while) is a place with a fire, to stay warm and have light during the night.

Home is where the hearth is.



That is how LOGHA (fire) became LOGE (camp, lodge).
 ======

What the hearth is for a house (the warming center), the heart is (or was thought to be) for the body.

heart - english
hjärta - swedish
hjarta - icelandic
hjerte - danish, norwegian
herz - german
hart - dutch
hert - frisian
HIRTA / HIRTE / HIRT - Fryas

hearth - english
herd - german
haard - dutch
hurd - frisian
HÉRD - Fryas

SOK-RAT ~ seek reason

SOCRATES => SOK-RAT = ZOEK-RAAD / -REDE= seek reason/ rationality/ counsel/ advice

al-Kindi, a well-known Arabic philosopher, introduced and tried to reconcile Socrates and Hellenistic philosophy to an Islamic audience, referring to him by the name 'Suqrat'. (wiki/Socrates)

=> just like I said: Soeck Raedt!
So his name actually meant philosophy.

OLB: BOK
English: book
Dutch: boek
German: buch
Swedish: bok

OLB: GOD
English: good
Dutch: goed
German: gut
Swedish: gott

OLB: SOK
English: 'sook' (seek, search)
Dutch: 'soek' (zoek)
German: such
Swedish: sök

OLB: RÉD
English: 'read', rationality, reason, counsel, advice
Dutch: raad, rede, rationaliteit
German: rat
Swedish: råd




Or... zoek (het) rad = seek (the) wheel

 

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:29 PM

NO-ID-EA, on 16 October 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

With the words Sok- red for Socrates , bear in mind the closeness of the two word Sac-red , and Sec-ret... These may fall in line with Higgins theory ...

Creative idea, ID, but sacred seems to be derived from sacer (holy),
and secret from se-cernere (to separate oneself).

~

Higgins inspired me too.

"Almost all the latter part of my life has been spent
unlearning the nonsense I learned in my youth"
~ Godfrey Higgins (1772-1833)

Diotima, teacher of Socrates

Diotima by Józef Simmler, 1855

Aristotle (384 – 322 BCE) was a student of
Plato (c. 423 – c. 347 BCE), who was a student of
Socrates (c. 469 – 399 BCE), who was a student of... a woman!
(according to Plato)

Her name was Diotima and she taught Socrates the philosophy of love.



~ ~ ~

Here is a fragment of Plato's Symposium, which reminds me of an OLB fragment (see below).

(It is not a strong argument for anything (yet), I just share it for now because I think parallels like this are interesting.)

Translation by Benjamin Jowett (1817 – 1893) Source

[207d-e: dialogue Diotima-Socrates]

Nay even in the life of the same individual there is succession and not absolute unity:
a man is called the same,
and yet in the short interval which elapses between youth and age,
and in which every animal is said to have life and identity,
he is undergoing a perpetual process of loss and reparation—
hair, flesh, bones, blood, and the whole body are always changing.
Which is true not only of the body, but also of the soul,
whose habits, tempers, opinions, desires, pleasures, pains, fears,
never remain the same in any one of us,
but are always coming and going;
and equally true of knowledge, and what is still more surprising to us mortals,
not only do the sciences in general spring up and decay,
so that in respect of them we are never the same;
but each of them individually experiences a like change.

(Original Greek text here)

~ ~ ~

OLB original manuscript p.102 lines 9-30 ~ "thet ôthera dél fonre form-lér"

[Dutch translation 1872 Ottema ~ p.141]

Maar doordien zijn leven steeds voortgaat,
zoo kan er ook niets op zijne plaats blijven.
Daarom verwisselen alle geschapene dingen van plaats,
van gedaante en ook van denkwijze.
Daarom mag de aarde zelve, noch eenig schepsel zeggen:
ik ben, maar wel: ik was.
Ook mag geen mensch zeggen: ik denk, maar bloot: ik dacht.
De knaap is grooter en anders als toen hij een kind was.
Hij heeft andere begeerten, neigingen en denkwijze.
De man en vader is en denkt anders als toen hij knaap was.
Even zoo de oude van dagen. Dat weet iedereen.
Bijaldien nu iedereen weet, en moet erkennen, dat hij steeds wisselt,
zoo moet hij ook bekennen, dat hij ieder oogenblik wisselt; ook terwijl hij zegt: ik ben;
en dat zijne denkbeelden veranderen, terwijl hij zegt: ik denk.

[English translation 1876 Sandbach ~ p.141]

but whereas his life is continually progressing,
nothing can remain stationary,
therefore all created things change their locality,
their form, and their thoughts.
So neither the earth nor any other created object can say,
I am; but rather, I was.
So no man can say, I think; but rather, I thought.
The boy is greater and different from the child;
he has different desires, inclinations, and thoughts.
The man and father feels and thinks differently from the boy,
the old man just the same. Everybody knows that.
Besides, everybody knows and must acknowledge that he is now changing,
that he changes every minute even while he says, I am,
and that his thoughts change even while he says, I think.

Theological Hoaxes

"Nu we toch schertsend bezig zijn, dit is een goede gelegenheid om het concept van de 'hoax' eens theologisch uit te diepen. De wereld is misschien een kosmische grap van een kwaadaardige demon, waar theologen allemaal zijn ingetuind. De Bijbel en de Koran zijn dan een soort hoaxen om de spot te drijven met onze menselijke lichtgelovigheid. Dat zou meteen verklaren waarom er zoveel kletskoek in staat. Dan is mijn hoax een eerbetoon aan onze schepper!"

Improvised translation 
"Now that we are being facetious, this is a good opportunity to theologically explore the concept of the 'hoax'. Perhaps the world is a cosmic joke of an evil demon, and all theologians took it seriously. The Bible and the Koran would be a kind of hoaxes just to mock our human credulity. This would explain why they contain so much nonsense. Then my hoax is a tribute to our creator!"

Flemish philosopher of science Maarten Boudry in interview "VU voor schut met namaakartikel" (Amsterdam Free University fooled by nonsense-article), 4 October 2012, Filosofie Magazine.

Thought experiment

Imagine it is 600 years from now.

There has been a long period of wars, diseases, migrations and natural disasters all over the planet, libraries were destroyed, the internet was lost through cyber attacks, major solar flairs and other unknown causes. Books from secret private collections have fallen apart or were used as fuel for people to warm themselves or to cook on. Most people could no longer read them anyway, since for a few hundred years education was no priority. Also, because of a dogmatic ideological system that has ruled for several centuries, it was forbidden to own information carriers from before 2500 CE. Many other dreadful things have happened as well that I will not describe.

But now there is relative peace again and a Dutch text fragment from +/- 1900 CE is found. It contains the following expression:

"Ledigheid is des duivels oorkussen"
(proverb: "the devil finds work for idle hands", literally: "idleness is the devil's ear-pillow")

A researcher has a rare dictionary from the year 2400 CE. He starts translating and interpreting.

He can not find the word "ledigheid" (which even in 2000 CE was old fashioned, rarely used Dutch for idleness). But he does find "lenigheid", which means limberness. So he assumes a typing error and that limberness was meant.

"Is" is easy, but "des duivels" may not be recognized as a genitive case. In that case it may be misread as plural "the devils".

Since "oorkussen" is not in his dictionary, but "oor" and "kussen" are, he assumes that a space was missing. "Oor" means "ear" and "kussen" can mean the verb "to kiss" or the noun "pillow". "Oorkussen" for pillow already was out of use in 2000 CE. So he decides for "to kiss ear" or "earkissing".

"Limberness is the devils earkissing" or "limberness is to kiss ear (of/by?) the devils".

It does not make sense to him but, since he does not like to admit that he does not know, he decides to interpret it as:

"One needs to be flexible to kiss the ears of devils."

He concludes that it must be a joke.

~ ~ ~

This is how some fragments of the OLB were translated by Ottema in 1872, although he did not draw the conclusion that the text had to be a joke.

That is what Jensma did, who made some things even worse in 2006 with (subsidized and "scientifically sound"!) translations like:

GÉRT.PIRE.HIS TOGHATER (p.72 of manuscript)
"Gertje, de dochter van Grote Pier"
(Little Gert, daughter of Great Pier [= Pier Gerlofs Donia (c.1480 - 1520)])

and:

ALLERA MANNALIK THÉR EN OTHER  FON SINE FRYDOM BIRAW [...]
MOT IK ANDA BARN.TAM ÉNER SLAFINE FARA LÉTA. (MS p.12)
"Alleman die een ander van zijn vrijheid berooft [...] 
moet ik in de baarmoeder van een slavin laten voeren"
(anyone who robs another's freedom [...]
I'll have to lead into the womb of a slave girl).

I is for iota

Tradition tells us that "the Phoenician letter gave rise to the Greek Iota" (wiki: yodh).

Yet, neither the Phoenician, nor the Hebrew, the Aramaic, the Syriac or the Arabic version look anything like it.

Wiki:
In modern Hebrew, the phrase "tip of the Yud" refers to a small and insignificant thing, and someone who "worries about the tip of a Yud" is someone who is picky and meticulous about small details.

But the Hebrew Yud does not have a tip, like our i does!

There is a Dutch expression "de puntjes op de i zetten" (to add the dots to the i's = to add a finishing touch or to correct details).

~

According to the controversial Bock Saga (I know that it is not officially accepted to be an authentic oral tradition), the letter i originally referred to penis and sperm.

In OLB "od" also has something to do with fertility (or the origin of life), as it made the 3 first mothers pregnant.

So, "iod" (yod) could be i + od.

Makes more sense to me than the Phoenician hand or arm.

K is for Kappa

The Greek letter K is named Kappa.
It is thought to have been derived from the Phoenician letter Kaph:
The word Kaph "is thought to have been derived from a pictogram of a hand (in both modern Arabic and modern Hebrew, kaph means palm/grip)".

In Dutch, the verb "kappen" means to chop (wood).
(image missing) 

Related is the word "inkeping" (notch).

Also related the heraldic term "keper" (chevron).

K looks more like a notch or chevron, than like a hand.

Earlier I have argued that the Greek word Delta (used for their letter D) can be explained better through Oldfrisian than by the Greek language.

See D is for del-ta (in Westfriesland a "delte" still means a piece of low lying land (laagte).

Two Greek letters-names that have a more plausible explanation through the Dutch/ Frisian language, than through Greek.

Isn't that interesting?