Aristotle (384 – 322 BCE) was a student of Plato (c. 423 – c. 347 BCE), who was a student of Socrates (c. 469 – 399 BCE), who was a student of... a woman!
(according to Plato)
Her name was Diotima and she taught Socrates the philosophy of love.
~ ~ ~
Here is a fragment of Plato's Symposium, which reminds me of an OLB fragment (see below).
(It is not a strong argument for anything (yet), I just share it for now because I think parallels like this are interesting.)
Translation by Benjamin Jowett (1817 – 1893) Source
[207d-e: dialogue Diotima-Socrates]
Nay even in the life of the same individual there is succession and not absolute unity:
a man is called the same,
and yet in the short interval which elapses between youth and age,
and in which every animal is said to have life and identity,
he is undergoing a perpetual process of loss and reparation—
hair, flesh, bones, blood, and the whole body are always changing.
Which is true not only of the body, but also of the soul,
whose habits, tempers, opinions, desires, pleasures, pains, fears,
never remain the same in any one of us,
but are always coming and going;
and equally true of knowledge, and what is still more surprising to us mortals,
not only do the sciences in general spring up and decay,
so that in respect of them we are never the same;
but each of them individually experiences a like change.
Maar doordien zijn leven steeds voortgaat,
zoo kan er ook niets op zijne plaats blijven.
Daarom verwisselen alle geschapene dingen van plaats,
van gedaante en ook van denkwijze.
Daarom mag de aarde zelve, noch eenig schepsel zeggen:
ik ben, maar wel: ik was.
Ook mag geen mensch zeggen: ik denk, maar bloot: ik dacht.
De knaap is grooter en anders als toen hij een kind was.
Hij heeft andere begeerten, neigingen en denkwijze.
De man en vader is en denkt anders als toen hij knaap was.
Even zoo de oude van dagen. Dat weet iedereen.
Bijaldien nu iedereen weet, en moet erkennen, dat hij steeds wisselt,
zoo moet hij ook bekennen, dat hij ieder oogenblik wisselt; ook terwijl hij zegt: ik ben;
en dat zijne denkbeelden veranderen, terwijl hij zegt: ik denk.
[English translation 1876 Sandbach ~ p.141]
but whereas his life is continually progressing,
nothing can remain stationary,
therefore all created things change their locality,
their form, and their thoughts.
So neither the earth nor any other created object can say,
I am; but rather, I was.
So no man can say, I think; but rather, I thought.
The boy is greater and different from the child;
he has different desires, inclinations, and thoughts.
The man and father feels and thinks differently from the boy,
the old man just the same. Everybody knows that.
Besides, everybody knows and must acknowledge that he is now changing,
that he changes every minute even while he says, I am,
and that his thoughts change even while he says, I think.
"Nu we toch schertsend bezig zijn, dit is een goede gelegenheid om het concept van de 'hoax' eens theologisch uit te diepen. De wereld is misschien een kosmische grap van een kwaadaardige demon, waar theologen allemaal zijn ingetuind. De Bijbel en de Koran zijn dan een soort hoaxen om de spot te drijven met onze menselijke lichtgelovigheid. Dat zou meteen verklaren waarom er zoveel kletskoek in staat. Dan is mijn hoax een eerbetoon aan onze schepper!"
Improvised translation "Now that we are being facetious, this is a good opportunity to theologically explore the concept of the 'hoax'. Perhaps the world is a cosmic joke of an evil demon, and all theologians took it seriously. The Bible and the Koran would be a kind of hoaxes just to mock our human credulity. This would explain why they contain so much nonsense. Then my hoax is a tribute to our creator!"
Flemish philosopher of science Maarten Boudry in interview "VU voor schut met namaakartikel" (Amsterdam Free University fooled by nonsense-article), 4 October 2012, Filosofie Magazine.
There has been a long period of wars, diseases, migrations and natural disasters
all over the planet, libraries were destroyed, the internet was lost
through cyber attacks, major solar flairs and other unknown causes.
Books from secret private collections have fallen apart or were used as fuel
for people to warm themselves or to cook on. Most people could no
longer read them anyway, since for a few hundred years education was no
priority. Also, because of a dogmatic ideological system that has ruled
for several centuries, it was forbidden to own information carriers from
before 2500 CE. Many other dreadful things have happened as well that I
will not describe.
But now there is relative peace again and a Dutch text fragment from +/- 1900 CE is found. It contains the following expression:
"Ledigheid is des duivels oorkussen"
(proverb: "the devil finds work for idle hands", literally: "idleness is the devil's ear-pillow")
A researcher has a rare dictionary from the year 2400 CE. He starts translating and interpreting.
He can not find the word "ledigheid" (which even in 2000 CE was old
fashioned, rarely used Dutch for idleness). But he does find
"lenigheid", which means limberness. So he assumes a typing error and
that limberness was meant.
"Is" is easy, but "des duivels" may not be recognized as a genitive case. In that case it may be misread as plural "the devils".
Since "oorkussen" is not in his dictionary, but "oor" and "kussen" are,
he assumes that a space was missing. "Oor" means "ear" and "kussen" can
mean the verb "to kiss" or the noun "pillow". "Oorkussen" for pillow
already was out of use in 2000 CE. So he decides for "to kiss ear" or
"earkissing".
"Limberness is the devils earkissing" or "limberness is to kiss ear (of/by?) the devils".
It does not make sense to him but, since he does not like to admit that he does not know, he decides to interpret it as:
"One needs to be flexible to kiss the ears of devils."
He concludes that it must be a joke.
~ ~ ~
This is how some fragments of the OLB were translated by Ottema in 1872,
although he did not draw the conclusion that the text had to be a joke.
That is what Jensma did, who made some things even worse in 2006 with (subsidized and "scientifically sound"!) translations like:
GÉRT.PIRE.HIS TOGHATER (p.72 of manuscript) "Gertje, de dochter van Grote Pier"
(Little Gert, daughter of Great Pier [= Pier Gerlofs Donia (c.1480 - 1520)])
and:
ALLERA MANNALIK THÉR EN OTHER FON SINE FRYDOM BIRAW [...] MOT IK ANDA BARN.TAM ÉNER SLAFINE FARA LÉTA. (MS p.12) "Alleman die een ander van zijn vrijheid berooft [...] moet ik in de baarmoeder van een slavin laten voeren"
(anyone who robs another's freedom [...]
I'll have to lead into the womb of a slave girl).
Tradition tells us that "the Phoenician letter gave rise to the Greek Iota" (wiki: yodh).
Yet, neither the Phoenician, nor the Hebrew, the Aramaic, the Syriac or the Arabic version look anything like it.
Wiki: In modern Hebrew, the phrase "tip of the Yud" refers to a small and insignificant thing, and someone who "worries about the tip of a Yud" is someone who is picky and meticulous about small details.
But the Hebrew Yud does not have a tip, like our i does!
There is a Dutch expression "de puntjes op de i zetten" (to add the dots to the i's = to add a finishing touch or to correct details).
~
According to the controversial
Bock Saga (I know that it is not officially accepted to be an authentic
oral tradition), the letter i originally referred to penis and sperm.
In OLB "od" also has something to do with fertility (or the origin of life), as it made the 3 first mothers pregnant.
So, "iod" (yod) could be i + od.
Makes more sense to me than the Phoenician hand or arm.
The Greek letter K is named Kappa.
It is thought to have been derived from the Phoenician letter Kaph:
The word Kaph "is thought to have been derived from a pictogram of a hand (in both modern Arabic and modern Hebrew, kaph means palm/grip)".
In Dutch, the verb "kappen" means to chop (wood).
(image missing)
Related is the word "inkeping" (notch).
Also related the heraldic term "keper" (chevron).
K looks more like a notch or chevron, than like a hand.
Earlier I have argued that the Greek word Delta (used for their letter
D) can be explained better through Oldfrisian than by the Greek
language.
See D is for del-ta (in Westfriesland a "delte" still means a piece of low lying land (laagte).
Two Greek letters-names that have a more plausible explanation through the Dutch/ Frisian language, than through Greek.
"Papenvriendje" (disparaging term for a monk, something like "papist's pal or buddy"?) totally makes sense.
I always thought it referred to something they wear on their heads.
Or...:
A catamite of the pope (schandknaap van de paus).
~ ~ ~
(added Sept. 29: )
Still, two interpretations are possible.
1. PAPEKAPPE = hat, cap or cape of papist, bishop or pope.
In our language, it is common to refer to someone that one does not
respect, by reducing him to an external characteristic, for example "dat
kapsel" (that hairdo), or "dat gekke hoedje" (that silly hat).
2. PAPEKAPPE = -KEPPE = friend, sweetheart or even catamite of the pope.
In this case it could be a strong invective to any representative of the (Roman Catholic) Church, including monks.
The word would perfectly voice the feelings Liko must have had for what
he will have seen as dangerous traitors; collaborators with the enemy,
destroyers of his culture.
By simply translating PAPEKAPPE as "monk", something important gets
lost, IMO; the fact that LIKO used a nickname, that probably expressed
some very negative feelings.
======
To provide some context to the time when Liko 'Oera Linda' wrote his preliminary letter (unnumbered second page of OLB) in 803 CE, here are some names of the rulers:
pope of Rome
(795 - 816) Leo III, crowned Charlemagne in 800 as Roman emperor.
Carolingian emperor
(800 - 814) Charlemagne,
subdued the Frisians after a 3 year "bloody war" (wiki), between 783
and 785. He was also King of the Franks (768-814) and of the Lombards
(774-814).
bishop of Utrecht
(ca. 790 - 806) Hamacarus, only his name is known.
Liko wrote that he had "been at their court" (IK HAV BY THAM ET HOVE WÉST).
Where would that have been?
Rome, Noyon, Utrecht?
And these were the relevant rulers in 1256 CE, when Hidde 'Oera Linda' wrote his OLB-copy and letter to his son Okke:
pope of Rome
(1254 - 1261) Alexander IV; time of conspiracies and instability.
Roman (German) emperor
No official emperor between 1254 and 1312. Willem II of Holland was crowned as king.
bishop of Utrecht
(1249 - 1267) Hendrik I van Vianden,
he supported Willem II of Holland, but the latter exploited the
conflicts between Hendrik and the nobility of Utrecht at his own
advantage.
count of Holland
(1234 - 1256) Willem II of Holland,
was supposed to be crowned as Roman emperor, but died miserably (fell
through ice) at Hoogwoud, when he tried to subdue the Westfrisians.
His son and successor Floris V was only 2 years old in 1256, so the
nobility will practically have ruled until he was 12 years old (1266).
Floris made his first strike against the Westfrisians in 1272 (which he
lost).
======
Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:57 AM
The Puzzler, on 30 September 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:
The word for kappa you are not seeing is COVER/CLOAK=CAPE that is your kappe.
Kap/ cap (related to Latin caput = head ~ supposedly the origin of the word cape) was how I understood it before (as did the other translators, I suppose).
Otharus, on 26 September 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:
I always thought it referred to something they wear on their heads.
But in the meaning of good friend or lover
it makes a much more sense to me, as it would (imo) more adequately
express the feelings Liko must have had for them. Mind you... I was
raised with exactly those sentiments towards Catholics. They are deeply
rooted in Westfrisian culture.
I would not say though that your interpretation cannot be right.
======
Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:45 PM
The Puzzler, on 30 September 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:
Don't forget Frisian is closer to English unless you want to think Old Dutch is in the OLB.
The language of the OLB is close to what is called Oldfrisian, but it
has enough elements that are closer to other languages. Some words and
structures are actually closer to Dutch than to Frisian. (And that will
have been one of the reasons why many Frisians forcefully rejected it.)
Also note there are still some unknown words in OLB.
If we assume that the OLB was written in the 19th century, than the
author(s) probably knew KAPPE from Richthofen's Oldfrisian dictionary.
But if it is authentic, the other interpretation is also valid. It could even have been meant to be ambiguous!
Let me add that it is not how I think about Catholics and I never claimed that it was the only right interpretation.
But it is a new possible interpretation which would fit perfectly in the context.
(I also know that my grandparents would have shatterlaughed about it.)
~ ~ ~
Last week I attended a very interesting lecture about the origin of
present day Dutch language (both from Netherlands and Belgium).
Unification of language only started in the late 16th century, mostly
influenced by a new Protestant Bible translation (Statenbijbel, first
published in 1637) and the rise of printing press. Kiliaan (1599) made the first dictionary, made with that goal, to unify the countless and strongly varying dialects. To create a standard.
We are used to the idea of a national language, but there was no standard Old-Dutch nor Old-Frisian.
Even in present day Friesland I have noticed that there are significant
differences between various dialects and the same goes for Flanders.
People from different regions hardly understand each other when they
speak fast.
Also, important to know, many of them dialects do not have a written tradition, they merely exist orally!
~
Anyway my point is that in translating there are often several
possibilities and in this case it is a matter of taste, which one is
chosen. Not a matter of right or wrong.
======
Posted 30 September 2012 - 01:00 PM
The Puzzler, on 30 September 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:
Frisian is closer to English
English is closer to Frisian than to Dutch, but Dutch is closer to Frisian than English.
The Puzzler, on 30 September 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:
No Dutch words should be in the OLB, if it's authentic, only words that went into Dutch from Frisian.
You don't get it.
If OLB language is authentic, then some words will have survived in
Dutch only, others in Frisian or Flemish, or Swedish, German, English,
etcetera. Some words will have survived in several languages, others in
none at all.
======
Posted 30 September 2012 - 01:47 PM
The Puzzler, on 30 September 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:
Like
stof for instance - no way will that be a Dutch variant meaning dust -
it will be what became English stuff, which would have been an original
Frisian word.
I don't agree. Why are you so dogmatic? Language is not mathematics.
"Stof" in Dutch can have all 3 meanings!
It may have been like that for many ages.
We just don't know.
There are many examples of words that evolved into various different meanings.
Example:
"Verstaan" in NL-Dutch means "to hear" (can you hear me? no speak louder please).
In German "verstehen" means "to understand".
In Belgian-Dutch it can mean both.
Queen Boudicca as translated from 'Epitome' 62.3.1 by Cassius Dio, as read in 'Boudicca', by Marguerite Johnson (2012), p.84.
p.35 In Roman times, the territory of the Iceni included
Norfolk and part of Suffolk; to their west were the Corieltauvi, to the
south, the Trinovantes and Catuvellauni (...). During
migrations in the sixth century BC from Belgium and Holland across the
North Sea, northwest Europeans established communities along the Norfolk
rivers and marshes with peaceful integration of the indigenous
population.
Boudica (alternative spelling: Boudicca), also known as Boadicea and
known in Welsh as Buddug (d. AD 60 or 61) was queen of the British Iceni
tribe who led an uprising against the occupying forces of the Roman
Empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica
~ ~ ~
Iceni, from Belgium and 'Holland', 6th century BCE, that sounds like the Fryas or proto-Frisians. Queen Boudicca could easily have been a character from the Oera Linda.
