Forum #46 (13 apr. - 2 sep. 2015)

Irminsul by Wolfgang Willrich (1897-1948)

Little happened on the forum lately.
The (imo) most significant two post were on 27 august; see below, marked blue.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Posted 13 April 2015 - 04:17 PM

Note.
"Heliand" is usually translated as "Heiland" (saviour), but in Oldfrisian it can also literally mean "giving light": HEL.JÁND,
similar to OLB's HEL.LÉNJA (to lend light).
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Posted 17 April 2015 - 01:04 PM

The Puzzler, on 14 April 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

HEL is really CLEAR, even Sandbach has this word, Nyhellenia lent new and clear counsels.
HEL.LICHT clear light ie; the purest form
So I'm not too sure about your literal translations there..

from poster by Cornelis Koekkoek (1903-1982)

Light or clarity:
HEL.JÁND - "giving clarity"
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Posted 30 April 2015 - 09:12 AM

The Puzzler, on 30 April 2015 - 12:31 AM, said:

Its not that it doesn't make sense PT - the word hell/helle for light and clarity is not Frisian. That's what no-one seems to be getting. Find it in the Frisian dictionary.

When interpreting the OLB, one cannot rely on Oldfrisian dictionaries exclusively.
Sometimes Oldgerman, Oldnorse, Olddutch etc. (which are not all that different anyway) come to help to make more sense of it.
Sometimes one can only translate by considering the context.
Whe have had dozens of other examples of this.
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Posted 30 April 2015 - 11:27 PM

The Puzzler, on 30 April 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

... I asked you what your translation of BI HELLE DEI was ... HELLE NACHT

Sandbach is a translation of Ottema's translation, not of the original text.

Like Ottema, I would translate as "heldere dag" en "heldere nacht", still common expressions in Dutch, meaning clear in the sense of cloudless.

Quote

you and Abe and others are seemingly insistent on using Dutch or French borrowed words in many instances, such as this example for one...

I didn't use any French borrowed word.

And Dutch is just a variety of 'new Fryan', like German, Norse, Frisian, etc.
No coincidence that it is spoken in the same area as where the OLB describes as being the Fryan main homelands (Texland, West-Flyland etc.)
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Posted 27 May 2015 - 10:12 AM

The focus has been much on the language of the OLB in general and on individual words and their etymologies.
Also, we have explored archaeological material and other sources about the same area.
And I have translated texts about the OLB from Dutch and German into English.

Now I would like to discuss more the acual content and philosophy of the OLB.

This morning I thought of the first two pages, the copyist letters by (1) Hidde and (2) Liko 'Oera Linda' (Over de Linden).

They both describe a problem and a solution.
1. the information carrier does not last (paper decays in wet climate) ==> keep making copies
2. the information is sensitive and agents of a conflicting, dominant belief system will want to destroy it (Christian monks) ==> hide and protect it carefully

This is an example of how the various texts can be analysed.

The part that follows, with Adela's plea, contains some interesting themes, leading to the conclusion to collect various texts into what became the OLB.

What are these themes and how do they relate to our times?
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Posted 27 July 2015 - 10:15 AM

Much of Fryan culture (and language!) lives forth in various known traditions but all that is explained away as inspiration for the alleged 'fabrication'.
Burghs were already destroyed by enemies between 600 BCE and ca. year 0, as described in OLB, so it's nonsense to even suggest that any building would be left.
Most buildings will have been of wood anyway, and stones may simply have been re-used.
In the 13th century Floris V count of Holland built a castle in the village where I was born Wijdenes, and not a trace of it can be found today. They still have no clue where exactly it was located.
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Posted 12 August 2015 - 09:44 PM

Ell, on 12 August 2015 - 08:00 PM, said:

... if it is the genuine 13th century manuscript, then carbon 14 dating ought to easily verify that age.

Indeed. Yet the archive never had such a test done.
They refuse to even consider the posibility that it is authentic and still have not determined where and when the paper was made.
That should be dead simple with modern techniques.

SSilhouette, on 12 August 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

Your position then from "paper gate" is that the OLB is real/authentic?

Yes.
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Posted 20 August 2015 - 07:49 AM

flashman7870, on 20 August 2015 - 04:31 AM, said:

... Ulysseus ... "Oulixeus" ... "ULYSUS"

These are just 3 different spellings of exactly the same name.
They may even have been pronounced the same.
(Texel is pronounced Tessel in the NL)
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23 aug. see blog post Racemixers Banned in OLB

Posted 25 August 2015 - 12:17 PM

flashman7870, on 24 August 2015 - 10:28 PM, said:

Preventing human beings from living amongst you for no reason other than there parentage is precisely racism

The reason was not parentage or skincolor. They would not even take back those of their own blood, after the latter had been culturally corrupted.

But nor the first (the daughters), nor the second (the sons) may come back.
For they would bring foreign morals and habits with them

The 'Fryas' mostly detested slavery, while most other cultures had slaves or masters. That is the main thing they wanted to remain free of.
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Posted 25 August 2015 - 06:24 PM

flashman7870, on 25 August 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

The Findas were seen as irredeemably tricksy, were they not?

By some, but not by others.

Minno (Sandbach p.59):
I will conclude this history by saying that we must not have anything to do with Finda's people, wherever it may be, because they are full of false tricks, fully as much to be feared as their sweet wine with deadly poison.

Minerva (p.101):
the carrier must make five thousand revolutions of his Juul before Finda's people will be ripe for liberty.

Apollánja's book (p.155):
The Lydas people and the Findas people will exterminate each other, and we must people the empty countries.

Déla Hellénja (p.191):
But when the priests fancy that they have entirely extinguished the light of Frya and Jessos [Jes-us], then shall all classes of men rise up who have quietly preserved the truth among themselves, and have hidden it from the priests.
They shall be of princely blood of priests, Slavonic [slave peoples-], and Frya's [i.e. free peoples-] blood.
They will make their light visible, so that all men shall see the truth; they shall cry woe to the acts of the princes and the priests.
The princes who love the truth and justice shall separate themselves from the priests; blood shall flow, but from it the people will gather new strength.
Finda's folk shall contribute their industry to the common good, Linda's folk their strength, and we our wisdom.
Then the false priests shall be swept away from the earth.
Wr-alda's spirit shall be invoked everywhere and always; the laws that Wr-alda in the beginning instilled into our consciences shall alone be listened to.
There shall be neither princes, nor masters, nor rulers, except those chosen by the general voice.
Then Frya shall rejoice, and the earth will only bestow her gifts on those who work.
All this shall begin 4000 years after the submersion of Atland, and 1000 years later there shall exist no longer either priest or oppression.

Quote

... your use of the old addage "cultural marxism" which I have only seen on Neo-Nazi boards.

I wonder what you were doing there.
One could even pick up such a term when 'innocently' browsing those boards.
I got familiar with it on Red Ice Radio.
It perfectly describes the globalist transformation into a more easily-controllable monoculture.
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Posted 26 August 2015 - 08:35 PM

flashman7870, on 26 August 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

Why wouldn't they think they were better than the others?
... the Fryans were racist. ... it makes them the average human culture.

And you are above this average?
Why wouldn't you think you were ...?
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Posted 27 August 2015 - 09:16 AM

flashman7870, on 27 August 2015 - 04:38 AM, said:

I don't believe at morality is tied to race, no.

Still, you believe your morality is superior to that of "nazis" and "racists", terms heavily emotionally charged by decades of Hollywood (antigermanic) propaganda.

The terms are associated to genocide, to pure evil, similar to the words "witch" or "heathen" a few centuries ago.

Back then it was propaganda by the church against people who did not comply to the mainstream belief or held on to older beliefs.

Result: the burning of these 'heretics' alive with crowds of cheering people who were of "superior morals".

In our time the words "racist" and "nazi" are used against white people who want to preserve their culture and heritage, who don't believe in the globalist agenda (aiming at a one-world government, ruling a monoculture). It is hypocrite, for occupied Palestine is allowed to create a racially slash religiously 'pure' state by genociding the native population and only allowing other 'chosen ones' in.

If an individual like yourself can believe his morals are superior, then so can a group of people, a family, tribe, nation or race.

Quote

Whatever minor internal prejudices I have are... Well minor as compared to the Oera Lind Book.

L.O.L.
You obviously would not be able to see how major they actually are.
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Posted 27 August 2015 - 09:19 AM

flashman7870, on 27 August 2015 - 04:41 AM, said:

Except the Romans were fine with incorporating brown and swarthy folk of Lyda and Finda.

As long as they could use or control them, to increase their wealth and power.
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Posted 27 August 2015 - 10:05 AM

Ell, on 26 August 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

The Oera Linda book does not describe races. It describes three populations that descended from three different superwomen: Lyda, Finda and Frya, ... These populations were (Indo)-European populations, therefore Caucasian populations.

How do you explain this description of the three mythical mothers (Sandbach p.13-17):

Lyda was black, with hair curled like a lamb's
...
Finda was yellow, and her hair was like the mane of a horse
...
Frya was white like the snow at sunrise, and the blue of her eyes vied with the rainbow.

For more about black/ brown and yellow/ light-brown and the peoples of these colours as described in the OLB, see blogposts:

SWART, BRUN ~ black, swarthy, sordid, brown
FINDA WAS GÉL?
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Posted 27 August 2015 - 04:36 PM

Ell, on 27 August 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

I was born and grew up in Den Helder, the town where the Oera Linda Book was first revealed to the world.

Nice.
I was born and raised in Westfriesland, in a village close to Enkhuizen, where the OLB was kept until Cornelis got it in 1848. The naming after haircolor is known to me.

You are the first and only as far as I know with this interpretation, but it is far fetched IMO.

Black Adel was indeed named so for his hair colour:

18 [195/01]
THÉRVMBE WIL IK THÀT FORMA VR SWARTE A.DEL SKRIVA.
SWARTE A.DEL WÉRE THENE FJURDE KENING AFTER FRÍSO.
Daarom wil ik ten eerste over Zwarte Adel schrijven.
Zwarte Adel was de vierde koning na Friso.
Therefore I will firstly write about Black Adel.
Black Adel were the fourth king after Friso.

19 [196/06]
MEN JETA SWARTER AS SIN HÉR IS SINE SÉLE FVNDEN
Maar nog zwarter als zijn haar is zijn ziel bevonden.
But yet blacker than his hair, his soul was found.

22 [208/22]
HI NILDE NAVT NE DÁJA THA HJA SKOLDON HJARA SELVA FRIAS BERN HÉTA
LIK RÉINTJA BIBODEN HÉDE.
MEN HI VRJET THÉRBI THATI SELVA SWARTE HÉRA HÉDE.
Hij wilde niet gedogen dat ze zichzelf Friasbern zouden noemen,
zoals Réintja aangeboden had.
Maar hij vergat daarbij dat hij zelf zwarte haren had.
He did not want to allow that they would call themselves Frias-born,
like Réintja had proposed.
But he thereby forgot that he himself had black hair.

But Lyda's Land must be Africa, as is clear from the context. Here's a few fragments but I could give many more:

3 [031/13] Minno
LYDA.S FOLK NE MÉI NÉN ÉWA TO MÁKJANDE NI TO HALDANDE.
HJA SIND TO DVM ÀND WILD THÉR TO.
Lyda's volk kan geen wetten maken noch handhaven,
ze zijn daar te dom en wild voor.
Lyda's folk is not able to make or maintain laws.
They are too dumb and wild for that.

4 [048/18]
INVR LYDJA THÉR SEND THA SWARTA MINNISKA
in Lydja daar zijn de zwarte mensen
in Lydja (there) are the black people

5 [068/26]
HI STEK THUS MITH SINUM FLÁTE NÉI LYDJA. THAT IS. LYDA HIS.LAND.
THÉR WILDON THA SWARTA.MÀNNISKA FÁTA HJAM ÀND ÉTA.
Hij stak dus met zijn vloot (over) naar Lydja, dat is Lyda's land.
Daar wilden de zwarte mensen hen vatten en eten.
He thus crossed with his fleet to Lydja, that is Lyda's land.
There the black people wanted to catch and eat them.

If your interpretation would be right and the Finda's had "yellow" hair, that would mean they are blond. ("Geel" used to mean blond in context of hair.) Consider this:

[057/13] Tünis & Inka
TÜNIS WILDE THRVCH THJU STRÉTE FON THA MIDDEL.SÉ VMBE TO FÁRANE
FÁR THA RIKA KANING FON ÉGIPTA LANDUM. LIK HI WEL ÉR DÉN HÉDE.
MEN INKA SÉIDE THAT.I SIN NOCHT HÉDE FON AL.ET FINDA.S.FOLK.
Sandbach p.81:
Teunis wished to sail through the straits to the Mediterranean Sea,
and enter the service of the rich Egyptian king, as he had done before,
but Inka said he had had enough of all those Finda's people.

[136/11] Buda a.k.a. Krisen etc
IN.T HIRTE FON FINDA.S LÁND VPPET BERCHTA
LÉID EN DEL THÉR IS KÉTHEN KASAMÍR.
Sandbach p.185
In the heart of Findasland, upon a mountain,
lies a plain called Kasamyr (Cashmere)

[157/07] Adel
THA TARTARA IS EN BRUN FINDAS FOLK
Sandbach p.213
The Tartars are a brown tribe of Finda's people

[204/03] Adel
THA TARTARA SEND EN DÉL FON FINDA.S SLACHTE
Sandbach p.245
The Tartars are a branch of Finda's race
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Posted 02 September 2015 - 07:30 AM

Passing Time, on 01 September 2015 - 11:42 PM, said:

http://www.jatland.com/home/Minnagara

Very interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharuch

According to the Skanda Purana, the sage Bhrigu came to Bharuch sitting on a tortoise. The tortoise is known as Kachchha in Sanskrit. Hence the place was named 'Bhrigukachchha'.
Another theory states that the city derived its name from "Bhrigukachchha" (... "Bhrgu's riverbank"), the residence of the great saint Bhrigu Rishi. The city then became known as 'Bharukachch', which was later abridged to Bharuch.

In other words, the etymology is not known. It could easily have been BURCH (borough) originally. A word, very common in OLB.