16 November 2012

Forum # 25 (jun. 4 - jul. 6, 2012)


Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:26 PM
Otharus, on 28 May 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:
A similar exercise can be done with (for example):

SEND vs. SIND

WÉSA vs. WESEN

NW/ NVV vs. NV
KÁNING/ KÀNING vs. KENING/ KÉNING
WI vs. WY

Correction:
WÉSA and WÉSEN are not two varieties of the same word, they are different inflections of the same verb.

WÉSA = wezen, zijn (dutch) = to be = sein (german)
WÉSEN = geweest, gewezen (dutch) = been (past perfect) = gewesen (german)

=== Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:31 PM
From Dutch Wiki (translated into English):

Boaz (Biblical name)
The name Boaz means "In Him is force/ power".
http://nl.wikipedia....(Bijbelse_naam)

Like so many names from antiquity, this name can be explained by a Dutch/ Frisian word, in this case 'baas'/ 'baes' (English: boss).

Some OLB fragments with it:
THA BÁSA ÀND HJARA STORSTA SVNUM
FORSTA. GRÉVA. RÉDJÉVAR ÀND ALLE BÁSA ÀND MÁSTERA
ÀND ÉNIS BÁS SKOLDE WERTHA OVIR ALLE KÉNINGKRIK JRTHA.S
WAS THENE MÁGÍ BÁS WRDEN OVIR SKÉNLANDIS ASTAR DÉL
HWAND THENE MAGÍ WRDE BÁS
IK HÀV THI FRÉJETH JEFTH IK BÁS SKILDE WERTHA
THRJU JÉR LÉTTER WÉR THENE MÁGÍ BÁS
ALSA NÉARCHUS THÉR SELVA NÉN BÁS OVIR BILÍWA NE KV
NÉNE ORA MÁSTERA NACH FORSTA NER BÁSA
THÉRVMBE SKIL.ER ÁK BÁS ÀND RJUCHTER OVIR WÉSA

======
 
Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:43 AM
14 x Aldland / Atland in 5 spelling varieties and mostly used to designate year
varieties with fragment numbers as used below:

ÁTLAND - 1, 4, 7, 8, 13
ÁT.LAND - 6, 14
total "ÁT-": 7x

ALDLAND - 11, 12
ÁLDLAND - 3, 10
ALD.LAND - 2, 5, 9
total "ALD-" or "ÁLD-": 7x

Note:
Of these 7 times with "LD-", Ottema and Sandbach translated as "Atland" 4 times.
This stresses the relation to Plato's Atlantis, while it hides the meaning, "old-land".

The word is used for designation of year or era in fragments: 1, 5, 8 to 14 = 9 x out of 14.
So the remaining fragments that might tell us something about what or where this land or island was are 2, 3, 4 and 6, 7.

I would not rule out the possibility, that for some people (and thus authors) "ALDLAND" might simply have ment "old land", that is: all land that disappeared as a result of the disaster, or: all land before the big flood.

Fragments with Ottema & Sandbach translations

1. [00a/16] Hidde Oer-a Linda
NÉI ÁTLAND SVNKEN IS. THÀT THRJA THUSOND.FJVWER HVNDRED ÀND NJUGON ÀND FJVWERTIGOSTE JÉR
[O+S p.3]
nadat Atland verzonken is, het drie duizend vier honderd negen en veertigste jaar
in the three thousand four hundred and forty-ninth year after Atland was submerged

2. [021/16] Orlochs-éwa
HJARA MODER.S BÀRTA.LÁND. MIT NOMA ALD.LAND THAT NW VNDER.NE SÉ LÉITH
[O+S p.33]
hun moeders geboorteland, met name Aldland, dat nu in zee ligt
their native land, which was called Aldland, and is now submerged

3. + 4. [049/25] Ho àrge-tid kém
ÁLDLAND. TRVCH THA STJURAR ÁTLAND HÉTEN SVNK NÍTHER
[O+S p.71]
Aldland, door de zeelieden Atland geheeten, zonk neder
Aldland, called by the seafaring people, Atland, disappeared [sank nether]

5. [050/31] Ho Mágjara kémen
100 ÀND 1 JÉR NÉI THAT ALD.LAND SVNKEN IS
[O+S p.73]
100 en 1 jaar nadat Aldland gezonken is
One hundred and one years after the submersion of Aldland

6. [057/17] Tunis and Inka
INKA MÉNDE THAT.ER BY.SKIN WEL EN HACH DÉL FON ÁT.LAND BY WÍSA FON É.LAND VRBILÉWEN SKOLDE WÉSA
[O+S p.81]
Inka meende dat er misschien wel een hooggelegen deel van Atland, bij wijze van eiland, zoude overgebleven wezen
Inka thought that perchance some high-lying part of Atland might remain as an island

7. [058/02] Tunis and Inka
THA ÁTLAND SVNKEN IS. WAS.T.INNA MIDDEL SÉ RA OWERA ÁK ÀRG TO GVNGEN
[O+S p.81]
Toen het Atland verzonken is, was het aan de oevers der Middellandsche zee ook erg toegegaan
When Atland was submerged there was much suffering also on the shores of the Mediterranean

8. [058/20] Tunis and Inka
THAT WÉRE 100 ÀND 93 JÉR NÉI ÁTLAND SVNKEN IS
[O+S p.83]
dat was 193 jaren nadat Atland gezonken is
[that was] one hundred and ninety-three years after Atland was submerged

9. [062/08] Kàlta and Min-erva
563 JÉR NÉI ALD.LAND SVNKEN IS
[O+S p.87]
563 jaar nadat Atland [Aldland] verzonken is
Five hundred and sixty-three years after the submersion of Atland [Aldland]

10. [075/08] Ulysus
AN THA JÉRA 1000 ÀND 5 NÉI ÁLDLAND SVNKEN IS
[O+S p.105]
In het jaar 1005 nadat Atland [Aldland] gezonken is
In the Year One Thousand and Five after Atland [Aldland] was submerged

11. [079/13] Déna-marka vrléren
1600 ÀND 2 JÉR NÉI ALDLAND VRGVNGEN IS
[O+S p.111]
1602 jaren nadat Atland [Aldland] was verzonken
1602 years after the submersion of Atland [Aldland]

12. [083/22] Déna-marka vrléren
VNDERA TÍDUM THAT ALDLAND SVNKEN IS. STAND THJU FORMA SPÉKE FON THET JOL AN TOP
[O+S p.115]
In de tijden, dat Atland [Aldland] verzonken is, stond de eerste spaak van het Juul in top
At the time of the submersion of Atland [Aldland], the first spoke of the Juul stood at the top

13. [136/08] Jes-us fon Kasamir
16 WÁRA 100 JÉR LÉDEN IS ÁTLAND SVNKEN
[O+S p.185]
Zestien honderd jaren geleden is Atland gezonken
Sixteen hundred years ago, Atland was submerged

14. [141/20] Jes-us fon Kasamir
FJUWER THUSAND JÉR NÉI ÁT.LAND SVNKEN IS
[O+S p.191]
vierduizend jaren nadat Atland verzonken is
4000 years after the submersion of Atland

=== Posted 13 June 2012 - 12:26 PM
Abramelin, on 13 June 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:
But from the OLB one can learn that Aldland was the homeland of the Finda (and the Finda only), or in other words: it was a specific area, and not all the land that got submerged in the 2194 BC event.

That is only fragment 2 of my post (page 21, line 16 of the manuscript), the introduction to the war-laws. The author of that fragment suggests to know where Finda was born, but she was a mythological mother, like Frya and Lyda. There may have been women with those names, but the OLB-story about the three mothers is obviously myth or poetic fiction. The intro-fragment basically says that before Aldland sank, there was no war with the Finda people, so they did not need laws about war.

You assume that the OLB was written by one author in one time and place. I believe that the various texts were written by different authors in different times and places. Therefore, IMO, what is said about Aldland does not have to be consistent.

The book was supposedly compiled firstly in the 6th C. BCE, that is some 1600 after Aldland sank.

Now think of how various authors wrote about our year zero in the 17th century. What is historic, what is myth, what is pure fiction?

Quote
We both know that it is generally accepted that Aldland was what others nowadays call Doggerland, or the former dry bed of the North Sea, and that can simply not be true if we follow the OLB narrative.

No, I don't know if that is what is generally accepted. I think it is also plausible to consider the possibility that people may have referred with Aldland/ Atland/ Atlantis to a lost continent in the Atlantic Ocean. This would agree more with Inka's story.

Again: I don't think every author of the various texts in the OLB may have had the same idea of what and where A. was.

=== Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:02 PM
Abramelin, on 13 June 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:
It may be clear from the OLB that he Fryans and Findas were not close friends, and most times real enemies. When is there often a 'need for war'? That's when your enemy lives nearby. Well, the Finda didn't live nearby, so that leaves out anything near Fryan territory, including the North Sea.

That is strange logic. They are enemies in the OLB, because they had wars since the Magí invaded Skénland (100 years after Aldland sank). If before that they had no wars, they were not enemies, whether they lived far away or closeby. If they had no wars why would they have been enemies?

Anyway, my statement still stands:

I would not rule out the possibility, that for some people (and thus authors) "ALDLAND" might simply have ment "old land", that is: all land that disappeared as a result of the disaster, or: all land before the big flood.

Similar to É-MUDE, meaning the mouth of a river; does not have to be limited to one geographic location.

=== Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:56 PM
Abramelin, on 13 June 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:
First: if Aldland meant nothing but the old land, then where is the article before Aldland?
They never use it, so it's a name not just all the old land that submerged.

I did not say ALDLAND means "the old land", it simply means "old land".
Just like "Op-Dijk" or "Oost-Eind" can be anywhere, so can "Old-Land".

=== June 26th, 2012, 12:37 PM 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ib-issi 
I have not got a note of the page no's but but have read in about three different places where it looks like it says they were wichanlik or wickan, i will find them again after work tommorow.
Frisian dictionary of Montanus Hettema (1832):
Wigand = strijder, held (warrior, hero)
Wigandlik = dapper, strijdbaar (brave, warlike)

These are the OLB fragments:

[page 4, line 32]
MÀN MOT TÁLA HJAM FON THA WICHARDA ÀND FON HJARA WICHANDLIKA DÉDUM ÀK WRA FÀRA SÉ.TOCHTA.
Sandbach p.11:
You must tell them of the sea-heroes, of their mighty deeds and distant voyages
=> should be "heroes"

[047/29]
VMB.VS WIGANDLIK FOLK THA WÉI TO WISANA NÉI SINA SÉ
S.69: to show our seafaring men the way to his sea
=> should be: "brave people"

[053/30]
THÉR NÁMON HJA WODIN MITH SIN WIGANDLIKA LAND.WÉR IN
S.77: where they took on board Wodin and his valiant host
(land-wér is actually: land-defence-force)

[054/24]
THV BIST THENE WIGANDLIKSTE KÀNING JRTHA.S
S.77: You are the most warlike king on the earth

[054/31]
WODIN WAS STERIK WOST ÀND WIGANDLIK
S.77: Wodin was strong, fierce, and warlike

[093/15]
SA SKOLDE HJRA BODA SINA WICHAR TO WÉI.WÍSER THJANJA
S.129: her messenger should serve as guide to his warriors

[112/22]
THÀT HJA SÉR WICHANDLIK EWRDEN SEND
S.155: that they are [have become] very warlike

[201/10]
THA FORSTA ÀND WIGANDLIKSTA MANNA
S.241: the princes and the fighting men
=> should be "bravest men"

(I left out two more similar fragments, because I have to go.)

=== Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:08 PM
Linde-river and -valley in Friesland.
Satelite photo's see here .

=== Posted 28 June 2012 - 08:49 AM
Today and tomorrow, midsummer is celebrated in the Frisian village where I live since january.
Of all possible objects, what do you think is used for decoration of the street?
The wheel! Photo's see here.

=== Posted 28 June 2012 - 03:16 PM
Abramelin, on 28 June 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:
I don't know how to translate -oorden in proper English, but it is a wellknown word from the OLB

Ottema translated WRDA with "oorden", but I think "waarden" (wards) would have been more correct.
http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...82&lemma=waerde
http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...&lemmodern=oord
http://nl.wikipedia....aard_(landschap)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward

Some OLB fragments with WRD:

THÁ KÉMON THÁ LANDWÉRAR UT ALLE WRDA WÉI
THRVCH MIN FOLK BEN IK KÉREN TO GRÉVETMAN OVIRA LINDA WRDA
THA WALDA THÉRA LINDA WRDA WÉRON MÉST WÉI
NÉI THA WRDUM FON STÁVERE ÀND THÀT ALDERGA
TO MIDNE FONET FÉST.FÍRJA KÉM NÉVIL TO HULLANDE VSA WRDA IN THIKKE THJUSTERNISE
SÁ SKILUN THÉR IN ALLE WRDA MÀNNISKA VPSTONDA
THÁ GOSA FALLEN WAS THÁ WILDON THA LJUD FON ALLE WRDA ÉNE OTHERE MODER KJASA
THENE OTHERA SVJARING NÉI MANNA.GARDA.WRDA.
MANNA.GARDA.WRDA IS FARIN THIT BOK. MANNA.GARDA.FORDA SKRÉVEN. MEN THAT IS MIS DÉN.
DÁNÁ TÁGON HJA INOVIR STÁVEREN.S.WRDA BY HJARA LJUDA ROND
THAT ALD ÀND JONG UT ALLE WRDUM WÉI KÉMOM
MIN TÁT HETH SKRÉVEN HO THA LINDA.WRDA ÀND THA LJUD.GÁRDNE VRDILGEN SEND.
LINDA.HÉM IS JETA WÉI. THA LINDA.WRDA FAR EN DÉL


Varieties of LJUDWERD:
Ljuwert [hidde/16]; 1256 CE
Ljudwerd [liko/23]; 803 CE
Ljudwardja [113/25-26] ca. 300 BCE
Ljvdwérd [143/21] ca. 250 BCE
Ljvwrd [143/22] idem
Ljvwerde [206/11] ca. 50 BCE

The following list of toponyms also demonstrates how Newfrisian spelling is degenerating (changing D into T):

Dutch/ Oldfrisian spelling VS "Nyfrysk":
Britswerd - Britswert
Burgwerd - Burgwert
Cornwerd - Koarnwert
Hartwerd - Hartwert
Jorwerd - Jorwert
Kimswerd - Kimswert
Leeuwarden - Ljouwert
Rewerd - Rewert
Tjerkwerd - Tsjerkwert
Wieuwerd - Wiuwert

=== Posted 30 June 2012 - 09:59 PM
Abramelin, on 30 June 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:
No forests with Lindens/Lime trees overthere either.

What are you talking about? 16th century or even later?

That OLB fragment was about 300 BCE.
It may have been anywhere.
The course of the present Linde river may have been way different.
Think of how much "the Netherlands" have changed over the last 1000 years.

We will really have to accept that we willnot know for sure where all the places described in OLB were.
We cannot even be sure if TEXLAND = Texel, or MEDEASBLIK = Medemblik.

===  July 1st, 2012, 06:15 PM ~ by Alewyn Raubenheimer

The small box/case of Johan Winkler (1877-1916)
(Raubenheimer's translation)

The bequest of Johan Winkler dated March 1907 (placed in the small box)

To whom it may concern,

At an evening meeting of the Frisian Society of History, Culture and Linguistics at Leeuwarden, the gentleman Dr. Eelco Verwijs, at the time archivist of Friesland and resident in Leeuwarden, tabled a bundle of loose sheets of a manuscript. He presented this bundle to the management of the Frisian Society and said that he had shortly before, whilst travelling from Harlingen to Den Helder on a steamboat which at the time sailed between these two places, met a certain gentleman, C. Over de Linden, ship’s carpenter at the Royal Dockyard at Den Helder. This man had told the gentleman Verwijs that he was the owner of a very old unreadable manuscript passed on from father to son for centuries in his family – a family of very Old Frisian descends. Mr. Over de Linden did not know what the manuscript contained. (My note: This tale goes against all documentary evidence)

The gentleman Verwijs further informed the meeting (I was present and by chance sat next to him) that he was naturally very interested in Over de Linden’s story and the latter, when he had heard that Verwijs could read Old Frisian, wanted to hand over some pages of the manuscript to Verwijs for further examination. After Dr. Verwijs had returned to Leeuwarden, having received some pages of the manuscript from Mr. Over de Linden, he had the pages copied letter by letter by a competent person and then sent the original pages back to Mr. Over de Linden. This is the copy he tabled at the meeting of the Frisian Society as related above. After the gentlemen at the meeting had handed the pages around and all had examined them (also the gentleman Eekhoff – mentioned later) and after some discussion and some further explanation by the gentleman Verwijs, the chairman (Mr. J. Dirks) proposed that the pages be handed to me to table a report thereon at a next meeting – a proposal that was adopted by the members and accepted by me. I was then still a young man in (the then) contemporary Frisian and had practised Old Frisian as a hobby since my youth, since the age of fourteen, with the encouragement and guidance of the Frisian language scholar Tiede Roelofs Dykstra.

I therefore accepted the charge and, after the meeting, returned home with the manuscript in my pocket. Soon after, I began studying the document and gradually the notion came to me that the matter was not “kosher”, and could not be – a notion that became a conviction as I came to understand and grasped the contents of the manuscript. Yet, I hesitated and doubted my conviction as I almost dared not consider, unsuspecting as I was, direct fraud on the part of the, to me completely unknown Mr. Over de Linden, much less still of the well known (to me) gentleman Verwijs. Thus I asked,in my embarrassment, Messrs.Jacobus van Loon Jz en Gerben Colmjon-both Frisian language scholars,for help and advice.These gentlemen, thereupon, came to my house one evening and we jointly considered everything carefully concerning the manuscript and the language in which it was written. After a long and careful deliberation, the mentioned gentlemen also came, like me, to the conclusion, on language and historical grounds, that the manuscript, insofar as it was placed in my hands, was fictitious, false. In a meeting of the Frisian Society following our gathering, I submitted, in this spirit, a short report on the manuscript wherein I concluded that it had to be false and an unruly piece – at least not as old as claimed therein.

This report was accepted and nothing more was said in the meeting about the matter. It was as if everyone hesitated to reveal his real opinion. Dr JG Ottema, board member of the Frisian Society was also present at the meeting. This prematurely aged, fragile and nervous man flipped a bit through the manuscript, which I again placed on the table, and said: "I would still like to rummage through it at my leisure at home", whereupon he, with the permission of the chairman, Mr. J Dirks, placed it in his pocket and, after the meeting, took home.

The Sunday following the meeting of the Frisian Society where I tabled my report, I went to church at the Groote Kerk (Big Church) in Leeuwarden where I, as deacon of the Dutch Reformed Church, had to perform duty. Dr. Ottema also attended the service. After the service, leaving the church with my fellow deacons who had taken up the collection with me, (and) walking along the Groote Kerk Street to the “deacon house” where we, as was customary, would count, store and record the collection, I heard behind me from a side street, the Modder, hurried, unsteady footsteps and a vibrant call: “Mr. Winkler, Mr. Winkler.” (It is as though I can still see and hear it after 40 years). Turning around, I saw that the caller was the gentleman Ottema mentioned above - coming over to me out of breath like he was walking over coal and nervously informed me that I was mistaken in my report to declare the manuscript false.

“Oh, oh! How you are mistaken!” said the old man in a trembling voice.
“How you are mistaken. The manuscript is undoubtedly authentic and its contents are so beautiful, so very important and remarkable!! No nation in the world (or, if must be, other than the Jewish nation with its Bible) – no nation in the world has such an old document and in such an old script, written in its oldest language and relating its oldest history as our Fries Nation now, especially now we, Frisians!!! Etc.

Oh! I was dumfounded! All this happened amongst church people, in the middle of churchgoers. I was certainly dumfounded – me the simple, innocent young man against a great scholar which Dr. Ottema certainly was. But, I modestly kept quite.

From that day the gentleman Ottema was besotted with the “Book of Adela” as we then still called the few pages from Mr. Over de Linden’s manuscript. He moved (as men say) heaven and earth for the benefit of the book, gathered many followers who, like him, regarded the book as a most remarkable and highly important document. Very few remained with me and the gentleman Colmjon who rejected its value and authenticity.

The gentleman Ottema now obtained the whole manuscript, the complete Oera Linda Book, from Mr. Over de Linden and he did not rest before he had made the book world known, which happened in 1872 when the publisher H. Kuipers in Leeuwarden published “The Oera Linda Book, from a manuscript from the 13th century, worked, translated and published by Dr. J.G. Ottema.”

The gentleman Dr. E. Verwijs now remained impartial and silent as much as possible in the matter. He got very little involved or not at all with it. No wonder! He realized that the Oera Linda Book was false – whilst the whole object with which he tabled the manuscript at the Frisian Society was a failure, as will be shown from the manuscript. I also remained impartial from the whole movement although I continued to declare the Oera Linda Book false when necessary.

Meanwhile, having participated from the outset in the Oera Linda Book and all that accompanied it, I came to know much about the whole matter; I became convinced who the original author was, who supported and helped him in the formulation, who introduced the writing to the world and how he launched it, etc. etc. These convictions of mine can now be found described here.

The conclusions of my many silent investigations and research, my experiences regarding the creator (creators) of the Oera Linda Book and all that are associated with it, are as follows. It will be noticed that this is only my personal opinion, my personal conviction - and nothing more. It is not legal proof.

The idea to have a document, a written book so to say (as the Oera Linda Book eventually became in essence) fabricated, first took hold in the brain of the gentleman Haverschmidt, minister of the Dutch Reformed Church at Den Helder. This was a witty, roguish, funny man, and as such already been known in his youth, especially amongst his fellow students at Leiden during the time he studied there. Under the pseudonym “Piet Paaltjes” various rhymes (poems are too flattering a term), mostly of a farcical nature, were written by him and saw the light.

As minister at Den Helder he was one of the first to represent and promote the so-called modern trend in the Church. In the years that he became acquainted with, and pondered about the book “Les Ruïnes”, he considered bringing a mysterious writing in a mysterious way into the world – a writing full of lies and fables presented in a very acceptable manner. Should the writing then be accepted as truth by some, or perhaps even many, he would then reveal himself as the creator, the author thereof and in this way demonstrate that as little as his writing reflected the truth, so little was the Bible a holy and truthful book.

As he worked on, and wrote his plot, he progressed further and further and began to exceed his objective. When his work was almost finished, he shared his intentions with Mr. Over de Linden at Den Helder (mentioned above) who was one of his followers in his modern direction. This man was soon wholly taken up by the gentleman Haverschmidt’s plan. In fact it fitted him like a glove, and he would give his assistance – as indeed he did.
Mr. Haverschmidt, although a Fries, born in Leeuwarden, was not sufficiently acquainted with the Frisian language, at least not with Old Frisian, the Early Middle Ages form of the language, to perfect his work in order to achieve his goal. Thus he looked for someone else who knew more about Old Friesian than himself. Such a man he found in the gentleman Dr. Eelco Verwijs, archivist of Friesland at Leeuwarden, someone he may have known to a more or lesser extend, perhaps even a friend – that I do not know.
The gentleman Verwijs was, like the gentleman Haverschmidt, witty and roguish who would always come up with a joke. Both gentlemen soon colluded; Mr. Verwijs added substantially to the book and improved the language as far as he was capable.

The latter had, with the disclosure of the book, another aim with the book other than those of Mr. Haverschmidt. He wanted to play the book into the hands of Mr. W. Eekhoff, archivist of Leeuwarden and book trader there. Now, this Mr. Eekhoff was, as far as his disposition was concerned, totally different from Mr. Verwijs; the one was the opposite of the other. Mr. Eekhoff was an old fashioned formal man, always serious, filled with dignity – an old fashioned scholar, through and through a man of the old stock. Through their positions, the gentlemen Verwijs and Eekhoff often had contact with one another but, other than that, their attitude to one another was far from friendly. It could not be otherwise – considering their temperaments. Mr. Verwijs ridiculed Mr. Eekhoff many times – not so much out of spite, but rather out of “nocht oan onnocht” – to use this Frisian expression.

To mention one example of his ridiculing: Mr. Eekhoff called himself (and also thus wrote his title on the title pages of his two main publications , “The Historical Description of Leeuwarden” and “The Condensed History of Friesland”, as “Archivarius van Leeuwarden”. Mr. Verwijs wrote, like everybody else at the time and even today, “Archivaris”. Hence he would, whenever he spoke to others of Mr. Eekhoff, jokingly spoke of “the last of the Archivariussen”. He did this as wordplay on a well known novel of the day called “The last of the Mohikanen” (a Red-Indian tribe in America). Oh, this was only lighthearted jokes (but) unsuited to a respectable and formal man such Mr. Eekhoff. Anyhow, the people enjoyed it. Mr. Verwijs also called Mr. Eekhoff “Wopke” (Eekhoff hated the name) – “Wopke the Profit”. But enough! (I have only mentioned this mockery here in passing to sketch the character of Mr. Verwijs, but I do want to voice my special respect to the memory of the honourable Mr. Eekhoff).

The gentleman Verwijs now contrived to place the manuscript, first drawn up by the gentleman Haverschmidt and afterwards further worked out by him, through an intermediary, as though by chance, in the hands of the Frisian Society. (Mr. Over de Linden being the intermediary) – most likely expecting the gentleman Eekhoff (who was on the management of the Society) to accept the manuscript without delay and with great enthusiasm as authentic and true and by his effort would announce it to the world. For this reason the beautiful story was worked out how Mr. Verwijs would have received the first announced pages out of the hands of Mr. Over de Linden as already mentioned here.

The gentleman Verwijs now expected nothing other than the gentleman Eekhoff falling on the manuscript like a welcome prey and make the “ad majorem Frisiae gloriam” known worldwide with great enthusiasm. But, that did not happen. Whether the gentleman Eekhoff, by some or other means, got wind earlier or whether something did not seem right and he did not trust the manuscript because it came out of the hands of the gentleman Verwijs – in whatever way I do not know – what I do know is that the gentleman Eekhoff did not walk into the trap that was laid for him. He also took, at the meeting of the Frisian Society (See page 34 before) where some pages of the manuscript was first tabled, the pages in his hands, paged through them saying nothing and asking nothing and passed it on to his neighbour at the table. I still see it now, so to say, happening.

The gentleman Eekhoff remained completely impartial in the whole matter. He did not get involved at all. He said nothing in favour of, or against the Oera Linda Book and has never done so. He simply remained outside of it.

I, however, took the pages (“The book of Adela’s followers” as we then called the manuscript) home to bring out a report about it. Some time later I submitted a report and thereupon the gentleman Dr. Ottema took the pages to his home – as related here before.

The gentleman Eekhoff, most certainly to the annoyance of the gentleman Verwijs, did not walk into the trap but the gentleman Ottema walked straight into it. The gentleman Verwijs then remained impartial and did not warn the gentleman Ottema. The Gentleman Haverschmidt also kept his distance. Oh (but) neither could do anything else. The further unfolding of the matter, starting with the publishing of the complete Oera Linda Book, is known and revealed.

In all modesty, locked in the small case, in which I also want to place this document, there are many special (items) relating to the closer history of the Oera Linda Book. It has been drawn up and written by Johan Winkler, ex-committee member (Librarian) of the Frisian Society for History, Antiquities and Language and presently extraordinary member thereof.

Haarlem, March 1907.

Source: Vrije Fries, 1917, no. 25.

=== July 3rd, 2012, 11:21 AM 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otharus 
I am careful not to use the OLB as a 'religious' text...
In fact, I see that the Fryan culture was by no means perfect and their laws had some serious flaws.

Some examples:

They had convicted criminals brought away and work for them in the tinmines (Brittain), which is in conflict with one of their primal laws, that explicitly says they should never take someone's freedom. (The criminals should have been either re-educated and set free, or killed.)

Already in the 6th century after the big flood, the conflict between Minerva (Nyhellénja) and Kàlta (Sírhéd) demonstrated serious disharmony. (p.62)

In the 16th century after the flood (600 BCE), in the time of Adela, it was impossible to choose a new Mother as a result of jealousy and distrust. (Brunno's writings, p.91)

=== July 3rd, 2012, 09:54 PM  by Alewyn Raubenheimer

Herewith a little tidbit I have been meaning to share for some time.
First, to recap the relevant part of the OLB’s story:

After the death of Minerva, nicknamed Ny-Hellenia, some Fryans in Athens elected a new Burghmaid, Gert, and called themselves “the Gertmanna”. They were subsequently expelled from Athens and fled to India in ca 1553 BC. In India they called their new land “Gertmannia”.

From India they migrated westwards towards Iran where they again called their new country “New Gertmannia” (It started off as a harbour to take in fresh water). Herodotus mentioned “Gertmania”, and by the time of Alexander the Great (ca 324 BC), it was known as “Carmania”. Today it is known as the province of “Kerman” in Iran.

(With other evidence I found, it became clear to me that the Gertmanna / Fryans played a pivotal role in the establishment of the Persian Empire.)

Some of these “Gertmanna” from India (next of kin of those in Persia) returned with Alexander’s army to Athens and after the wars with Ptolemy, they eventually returned to Fryasland in ca 300 BC after an absence of some 1224 years. They settled in Western Europe and retained the name of “Gertmanna”. The Romans subsequently called them “Germans”. Thus, the name of Burghmaid Gert of Athens was immortalized in Western Europe.

The first point I want to highlight from the OLB is this: Before ca 300 BC, there were no “Gertmanna” or Germans in Europe.

This is what Tacitus, a Roman Senator and historian (ca 56 AD – ca 117 AD) wrote in his “Germania” some 350 years later:

The Germans, I am apt to believe, derive their original from no other people; and are nowise mixed with different nations arriving amongst them: since anciently those who went in search of new buildings, travelled not by land, but were carried in fleets; and into that mighty ocean so boundless, and, as I may call it, so repugnant and forbidding, ships from our world rarely enter.

“For the rest, they affirm Germany to be a recent word, lately bestowed: for that those who first passed the Rhine and expulsed the Gauls, and are now named Tungrians, were then called Germans: and thus by degrees the name of a tribe prevailed, not that of the nation; so that by an appellation at first occasioned by terror and conquest, they afterwards chose to be distinguished, and assuming a name lately invented were universally called Germans.”


From the OLB narrative we clearly see that the Gertmanna came from India. I also made the statement that the Gertmanna were involved with the Persians or Iranians (or “Ira” as the OLB called them). Herewith just one similarity between the Persians and the Germans:

Herodotus of Halicarnassus (circa 484 – 425 BC), described the Persian’s approach to making important decisions:

It is also their general practice to deliberate upon affairs of weight when they are drunk; and then on the morrow, when they are sober, the decision to which they came the night before is put before them by the master of the house in which it was made; and if it is then approved of, they act on it; if not, they set it aside. Sometimes, however, they are sober at their first deliberation, but in this case they always reconsider the matter under the influence of wine.

Some 500 years later, Tacitus had this to say about the Germans:

To continue drinking night and day without intermission is a reproach to no man. Frequent then are their broils, as usual amongst men intoxicated with liquor; and such broils rarely terminate in angry words, but for the most part in maimings and slaughter.

“Moreover in these their feasts, they generally deliberate about reconciling parties at enmity, about forming affinities, choosing of Princes, and finally about peace and war. For they judge, that at no season is the soul more open to thoughts that are artless and upright, or more fired with such as are great and bold. This people, of themselves nowise subtile or politic, from the freedom of the place and occasion acquire still more frankness to disclose the most secret motions and purposes of their hearts. When therefore the minds of all have been once laid open and declared, on the day following the several sentiments are revised and canvassed.


=== July 4th, 2012, 08:41 AM  by Alewyn Raubenheimer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrank_Bouleen 
Friso is a legendary king of the Frisians who is said to have ruled around 300 BC. According to Martinus Hamconius in his 17th century chronicle Frisia seu de viris rebusque illustribus, and also the 19th century Oera Linda Book, Friso was a leader of a group of Frisian colonists who had been settled in the Punjab for well over a millennium when they were discovered by Alexander the Great. Taking service with Alexander, Friso and the colonists eventually found their way back to their ancestral homeland of Frisia, where Friso founded a dynasty of kings.
The underlined statement in your post is wrong.

According to supporters of the "hoax theory", the Oera Linda Book is a mixture of old legends, tales & myths from, inter alia, Friesland.

The old legends say that Friso came from India. The OLB, however, differs from the legends in that it tells us that, although he arrived in Frisia as the leader of the Frisian colonists (the Gertmanna) from India, he did not come from India. He was a “Sea King” in the Greek Navy. The Gertmanna met him in Athens and he showed them the way back to Frisia because he had been to Frisia before.

Now Friso wished to go with all his people to Frya’s land, where he had been formerly, but most of them would not go.

Unlike the Gertmanna from India, he had partaken in Greek religion before.

The Joniars”, he said, “are idol worshippers. I myself have heard them call upon them.”
“That comes from their intercourse with the real Greeks”, Friso said. “I have often done it myself, and yet I am as pious a Frya’s man as the finest of you”
. (i.e. he was not one of the Gertmanna)


The Gertmanna from India had a different leader:

Friso, who had sailed a good deal with the Joniars, said “Yes”, but Wichirte, our king, said “No”.

Later Friso modernized the Frisian Army and Navy:

Friso, who was already powerful by his troops, was chosen as count of the districts around Staveren. He laughed at our mode of defending our land and our sea battles; therefore he established a school where the boys might learn to fight in the Greek manner,

I have asked this question before:

If the OLB is a hoax, why does it differ from the legends? Surely a hoax would have said that Friso came from India as the legends say? It would have been quite simple to work him into the Indian episode if the book was a hoax.

Secondly, how do we explain Tacitus’ claim that the word “Germans” was a new word? (My previous post)
======

July 4th, 2012, 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrank_Bouleen 
If the OLB had indeed stayed close to that legend about Friso, then Friso would have been a foreigner, a man from India. But as we all know, the whole OLB is about how great the Fryans were and that everything civilized started with them, so the founder of (modern day) Friesland should of course not have been a foreigner.
You seem to have missed the point.

Whether Friso was from the Indian colony, or from the Greek colony, in both cases he was a foreigner of Fryan descent.

If - as a mere thought experiment - we would assume that the OLB was made as a hoax, the supposed creators made a spectacular effort to create an illusion of authenticity, for example by including spelling and style varieties between the various texts that make up the OLB. (I have posted about this recently on UM and on my blog.)

Continuing the thought experiment, we can conclude, that the supposed hoaxers must have desperately wanted this manuscript to be accepted as authentic.

It would have been easier to have it accepted in 19th century Friesland and the Netherlands, if it was more in line with what was already available; the Frisian mythology and folklore. Yet, it was so revolutionary different at various points, that it was to be expected that many people would forcefully reject it.

Dr. Jensma's interpretation was (2004), that the supposed hoaxers only wanted to create a short-term illusion, by making it self-evident that the manuscript was fake. Their aim would merely have been to start a debate about religion and Frisian nationalism.

But we have come to the conclusion that OLB is not at all self-evidently fake. If Jensma would be right, then why would they have made such an insane effort to (for example) create the spelling varieties?

For a mere academic joke, OLB is way too complex.

The fact that it deviated so much from the 19th century paradigm - while it actually agrees quite well with what we know or can imagine today (for example Iman Wilkens' evidence) - makes it much more likely that it is authentic, than that it is a hoax.

If it were a hoax, this should have become more obvious through the years.
Not less, as it does.

===July 4th, 2012, 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrank_Bouleen 
No, I didn't miss the point.
The legend as told by a Hamconius never said Friso was of Fryan descent. He was from India and India only. That legend never said that there was a group of Fryans/Frisians/whatever living there for 1200 years, and that a group of them "returned" to Frisia/the Fryan homeland.
You missed the point even more than I thought.

Frisian 'mythology':
Friso, founder of Friesland, came from India or was Noah-descendant (there were political motives to suggest a connection with bible mythology).

OLB:
Gertmanna came from India, and were guided to Fryasland by Friso, who was not from the Indian colony. The Gertmanna and Friso were all of Fryan descent.

If OLB would have been a hoax, it would have been more in line with the existing 'mythology' if Friso had also come from India.

Why would your supposed hoaxers have changed that element, risking that their fabrication would be rejected because of the many differences with textbook Frisian myths?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrank_Bouleen 
And to me it is clear no 19th century Frisian wanted the name of their land/province to have originated from some 'true' foreigner.
Nonsense.
They were used to the idea that founding father Friso was from India.
There were also versions of the myth in which he descended from Noah.

 ===  July 5th, 2012, 08:07 AM by Alewyn Raubenheimer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrank_Bouleen 
You are religiously defending your 'Holy Book'.
No, we do not regard the OLB as a “holy book” – merely an important historical document such as the writings of Herodotus, Tacitus, Pliny, etc. Why don’t you call the works of these authors also “holy books”? The OLB gives us insight into a part of history that historians know very little about.

When all else fail, the supporters of the Hoax Theory have all along been using this “religion” or “holy book” ploy to cast doubt on the objectivity of, and discredit anybody who may suggest that the OLB is authentic – a ploy that, I must say, has been very effective to date. Let’s face it: no professional academic wants to get involved with some hairbrained fringe “religion”.

Both Otharus and I have given irrefutable evidence that the OLB is authentic and you have done nothing more than heckling. But, who cares? In the end you and the “Hoax Theory” will carry the day; not because you are right, but because historians could not be bothered. The fact that the OLB radically changes our understanding of European history does not seem to concern them in the least.

Until the day that some historian with influence and guts sticks out his neck and question the “OLB Hoax Theory”, the status quo will remain. Unfortunately, there are very few such people around and unless such a person comes to the fore, you, Otharus and I will remain the only ones here bickering about it.

=== July 5th, 2012, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrank_Bouleen 
Yes, that other 'legend' about Friso descending from "Shem". I know.
"Used to the idea" doesn't necessarily mean "loving the idea".
I will spell out the flaw in your reasoning.

You suggest that the supposed hoaxers changed "Friso came from India" into "Friso was from Fryan (proto-Frisian) descent", so the Frisian readers would get more respect for their supposed founding father.

From an idea that they were used to, they could move to an idea that they would love.
If that would be the case, then why did they not portray him like a hero?
The OLB is actually more negative about Friso than any of the legends that were already known.

=== July 5th, 2012, 11:34 AM

some Friso fragments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transvaler 
The old legends say that Friso came from India. The OLB, however, differs from the legends in that it tells us that, although he arrived in Frisia as the leader of the Frisian colonists (the Gertmanna) from India, he did not come from India. He was a “Sea King” in the Greek Navy. The Gertmanna met him in Athens and he showed them the way back to Frisia because he had been to Frisia before.
Because this was an important post, I will add the original fragments and where they can be found [page, line]. Also I added a few minor corrections and clarifications to the translated quotes.
Quote:
Now Friso wished to go with all his people to Frya’s land,
where he had been formerly,
but most of them would not go.
[127/28]
NW WILDE FRISO MITH ALLE MAN NÉI FRYA.S LAND FÁRA.
THÉR.I ÉR WÉST HÉDE.
MEN THA MÉST NILDE THÀT NAVT NE DVA.
Quote:
Unlike the Gertmanna from India, he had partaken in Greek religion before.
The Joniars”, he said, “are idol worshippers ["thjanjar" = servants].
I myself have heard them call upon them.”
“That comes from their intercourse with the real Greeks ["Krékalandar"]”,
Friso said.
“I have often done it myself,
and yet I am as pious a Frya’s man as the finest of you”
.

(i.e. he was not one of the Gertmanna)
[130/07]
THA JOHNJAR SEND AFGODA THJANJAR SÉID.ER.
IK SELVA HÀV HÉRAD. HO HJA THI AN HROPTE.
FRISO SÉIDE
THET KVMATH THRVCH THA WANDEL MITH THA ÀFTA KRÉKALANDAR.
THÀT HÀV IK VÁKEN SELVA DÉN.
THACH BEN IK ALSA HERDE FRYAS AS THA FINSTE FON JOW.
Quote:
The Gertmanna from India had a different leader:
Friso, who had sailed a good deal with the Joniars, said “Yes”,
but Wichirte, our king, said “No”.
[130/04]
FRISO THÉR FÜL MITHA JOHNJAR FAREN HÉDE SÉIDE JÀ
MEN WICH.HIRTE VSA KÉNING SÉIDE NÉ.
Quote:
Later Friso modernized the Frisian Army and Navy:
Friso, who was already powerful by his troops ["ljud" = people],
was chosen as count ["vrste-gréve"]
of the districts around Staveren.
He laughed at our mode of defending our land and our sea battles; therefore he established a school
where the boys might learn to fight
in the Greek manner,
[144/18]
FRISO THÉR AL WELDICH WÉRE THRVCH SIN LJUD
WÀRTH ÁK TO VRSTE.GRÉVE KÉRN
THRVCH STÁVEREN.S OMME.LANDAR.
HI SPOT MITH VSA WISA FON LÁND.WÉR ÀND SÉ.KÀMPA.
THÉRVMBE HETH.ER EN SKOL STIFT
HWÉR IN THA KNÁPA FJUCHTA LÉRA
NÉI KRÉKALANDAR WÍSA.

=== July 6th, 2012, 10:01 AM 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrank_Bouleen 
The OLB also mentions the good things he did, so it's all not as negative as you portray it is.
The initial question was:

Why would they have deviated from the existing mythology, that said he came from India?

In the 19the century, that was the most serious information available about him. The 'myth' might still have become confirmed later, for example by research in India.

The supposed hoaxers (that I don't believe in) would have played more safe, if they would have sticked to the idea that he came from India (together with the Gertmanna).

Again, I return to my main argument:

If they did this incredible job of reconstucting an old language, including spelling and style varieties, make up laws and histories, partly based on many obscure sources, make it look old, etcetera... In other words, if they made a huge effort to create an illusion of authenticity...

Then why did they include so many elements that - as they could have known - made the whole lot unbelievable and unacceptable to many scholars of their time?

Two examples:
- the Jesus of Kasimir story
- the 'RUN'-letters on page 46

A few believed it alright, but if the supposed hoaxers would have played safer, they could have fooled all of them!

13 November 2012

Okke fon Skarl

OKKE VAN SCHARL IN LICHTER LEESBARE UITVOERING
(A more easy-to-read version of the Frisian Chronicle by Ocko Scarlensis)

Skarl in Friesland


[p.1]

~ Beminde Lezer/
ik hebbe by onze Voorvaders beschreven gevonden/
dat na des Weerelds Scheppinge drie duizend en 't zeventig Jaar
hier aan Land zyn gekomen/
een zonderling groot/ ongeschikt/ en onbehelpelyk volk/
dat men Gyganten ofte Reuzen noemde/
die verjaagt waren uit het Eiland Albyon/
't welk men nu Engeland noemt.

En als zy ontrent de Noordzee aan Land kwamen/
hebben ze huizen/ woningen nog menschen daar gezien/
menende dierhalven dat het voor haar komste van niemand gevonden was/
door welken zy vrymoedelyk op 't Land getreden zyn/
om zo de Landen en gelegentheden te bezien/
daar ze terstond onverzienlyk
van een grote menigte van Wilde Luiden
besprongen/ aangegrepen/ en overrompelt zyn.

[p.2]

~ Zy Luiden zulks ziende/
vlugten spoedig weder Zeewaarts na hare Schepen/
alwaar ze nogtans in 't vlugten zommige uit den haren verloren hebben:
Dog haren Ankeren ligtende/
zyn weder in 't Zuidwest opgevaren/
en zyn alzo ten laatsten ontrent de uitgang van de Maze weder aangekomen/
daar ze een sterk Slot of Kasteel timmerden/
't welk zy Slavenburg noemden/
vermits zy haar zelven Slaven hieten/
en uit den Lande van Slavonien te komen af tekenden.

~ Lange na dezen zyn uit de Indische Landen
een grote menigte by Lotinge gedwongen te vertrekken/
vermits haar het Land niet alle kon voeden.
Over welken drie gebroeders/
met namen Friso, Saxo en Bruno
als Capiteinen van haren Princen geordineert en gestelt zyn.

Deze uitgelezene mannen die zeer jong/ stout/ en strydbaar waren/
dus vertrekkende/
zyn by den Groten Alexander, Koning van Macedonien/
in dienst gekomen/
die ze ook in al 'er trouwe te wille geweest zyn en dienden;
door welken hy ze ten laatsten in Azien/
tot een bescherminge van zyn overwonnen Land geordineert/
en gelegt heeft.

~ Niet te min Alexander is twee Jaren na dien overleden.
En vermits dezer Luiden strenge Regeringe/
zyn ze zeer hatig by den Azianen geweest;
zo dat ze na haars heeren overlyden ook spoedig moesten vertrekken.

Zorgende en wel ziende dat haar van den zelven Inwoonders anders eenig ongeval/
en perykel overkomen en geschieden mogte.

Want al te strenge regeringe gemeenlyk ongunst der Onderzaten/
en grote rebelligheid tegens haar behoorlyke Overheden mede brengt.

Begevende haar dierhalven in Schepen/
en zeilden weder met eenen goeden en gelukkigen Wind na Africa/
daar India/ haren Vaderland/ mede in/ en onder gelegen was.

~ Dog willende voldoen aan hare toegevallene Lotinge/
zyn na des Weerelds Scheppinge drie duizend zes hondert en 't zeventig Jaar
straks weder van daar getogen;
om zo te zoeken eenige Heeren/ Princen/ Plaatzen/ Landen of Heerlykheden/
by of in den welken zy konden leven/
en hare nootdruftige kost en onderhoudinge hebben.

Zyn alzo ten laatsten ontrent de Noordzee aangekomen/
daar te voren de voornoemde Gyganten/
als gehoort is/
ook geweest hadden.

En ziende daar Steden/ Dorpen/ Huizen/ nog Woningen staan/
vermoeden zy wel dat het wild/ woest/ en van niemand bewoont Lant was/
door welken zy vrymoedelyk uit hare Schepen gegaan en op 't Land getreden zyn/
daar ze niemand gehoort/ gezien/ nog gevonden hebben/
want de Wilden die daar geweest hadden/
waren voor dezen al weder vertrokken.

[p.3]

~ En doorziende het Land/
heeft haar den grond/ bodem/ en vrugtbaarheid van dien zeer wel behaagt.

Zo dat ze met malkander besloten/
en eenzamelyk veraccordeerden/
om daar te blyven en hen-lieden neder te slaan;
alzo dat ze met'er tyd hier en daar veel Huizen en Woonplaatzen timmerden/
het Land bouwden en vrugtbaar maakten/
zo dat ze zeer wel haar daar konden onderhouden en geneeren.

~ Byzonder hebben ze op een Rivier/
genoemt het Vlye,
die zyn uitgang in de Noordzee hadde/
zeer vele een grote Woningen gebouwt/
daar ze ook een schonen en zeer heerlyken Tempel maakten/
in welken zy haren voornaamsten en byzondersten Afgodt Stavo,
met grote eere en vercieringen stelden;
zy woonden en hielden deze plaatze langen tyd in.

Dog/
vermits deze gebroeders ten laatsten om de weidinge der Beesten/
en andere nootdruftige zaken/
al te met verschil/ tweedracht/ en zeer grote kwestie kregen/
zo heeft Friso met zyne Broeders willen Loten/
wie van haar-luiden daar zoude blyven/
op dat zo de andere mogten vertrekken.

Waar door liefde/ en eenigheid tusschen hare gebroeders mogte blyven:
zeggende/ dat hem dat voor 't beste en nutste geraden dogte.

Waar op d'andere antwoorden:
Dat zy zulks niet wilden doen/
maar waren bereid na zyn gelieven
(vermits zy de jongste waren)
te vertrekken;
dog met zulk een conditie en voorbedinginge/
dat ze met die vertrekkinge
geenzins in de Broederlyke liefde verscheiden en afgesneden zouden zyn/
't welk zy malkanderen goedwillig belooft en toegezeid hebben.

~ Na dezen hebben Saxo en Bruno van haren oudsten Broeder Friso afscheid genomen/
en zyn verre in 't oost opgetogen/
en hebben zig in Sassen by der Elve nedergeslagen/
niet verre van malkanderen/
daar ter dier tijd nog een groot hoek Lands wild/ woest/ en onbewoont lag/
dat Saxo na het naaste aanpalende Land
(of veel meer na hem zelven/ de plaatze die hy daar innam/ bebouwde en behuisde)
ook Saxen Land noemde.

Dog Bruno,
op dat 'er ook tusschen hem en Saxo zynen Broeder geen disordre zoude ryzen/
week met den zynen ter zyden af/
en begon daar ook op verscheiden plaatzen te timmeren/ en te bouwen.

Onder andere ook de stad Brunswyk/
die hy na zyn eigen name zo noemde/
uit dien oorzaak/
wyl hy die de jongste was/
woude hy zyn Broeders geerne plaatze geven/
ende van haar wyken/
want de Stad met den eersten niet Brunswyk/
maar Brunowykt genaamt was/
hoewel na verloop van tyd/
een weinig daar in verandert is.

~ Als dan Friso dit Land dus ingenomen/
vrugtbaar en allezins [p.4] met den zynen bewoont hadde/
heeft hy 't na hem zelven ook Friesland genoemt.

En hoe langer hoe meer met veel Huizen/ Dorpen en Woningen verciert;
heeft ook aan zyne Kinderen by zyn leven gepart en uitgedeelt/
daar hy ze Heeren overgezet en gestelt heeft.

~ Grunus,
wiens vader een Kindskind van den voornoemden Friso was/
en een Zoon van Gailo,
heeft Anno Creationis mundi drie duizend agt hondert en twintig/
in Friesland een Kasteel of Slot gebouwt/
juist anderhalf hondert Jaar voor de geboorte Christi/
en noemde het na hem zelven Grunenburg,
daar met 'er tyd vele Huizen/ en andere Woningen by getimmert en gebouwt zyn/
zo dat het ten laatsten een Dorp wierde/
het welk men na het Kasteel of Slot Gruninge noemde/
en lange na dezen met houten planken eerst bevestigt heeft.

~ In deze beschryvinge van Gruninga/
dat nu Groningen hiet/
hebben veel uitheemsche Schryvers/
of door onwetenheid of door kwade overschryvinge zeer gedwaalt/
die de Stad ouder/ als Friesland bewoont is geweest/ maken.

Of de bouwinge moeste voor de komste van Friso al weder uitgeroeid wezen/
en nu by deze tyd andermaal hermaakt zyn/
't welk men nogtans niet geloven kan/
vermits hy in zyn komste het Land woest en onbewoont gevonden heeft/
daar men wel uit merken kan/
dat ze namaals eerst moet gebouwt wezen.

~ frisius de jongste Zoon van Grunus,
diende lange den Prince van Tongeren/
was een wonderbaar/ onverzaagt en stoutmoedig Man/
kreeg Anno Creationis mundi 3958. des Princen van Stavorens Dogter.

~ Na dezen zyn de Huizen en Bewoningen gebouwt op de Riviere van 't Vlye/
daar ze haren principaalsten Afgodt Stavo eerden/
zeer grotelyk vermeerdert.

Zo dat het na de Scheppinge des Weerelds 3970. Jaar
('t welk was het eerste Jaar van de geboorte Christi)
tot een Stad gemaakt is/
want zy 't doen met diepe Graften/ hoge Wallen en Toornen hebben verzien:
Noemden ook deze nieuwe gemaakte Stad/
ter eeren des Hooggeeerden Afgodt Stavo/
Stavoren,
die ook de eerste en oudste Stad geweest is/
die Friesland gekregen heeft;
en is voort na dezen in al'er hoogheid verheven/ en opgeklommen.

~ Dit volk/
dat Friesland dus eerst ingenomen/ gebouwt/ en bewoont heeft/
was zeer wreed/ onrustig/ strydbaar/ en altyd genegen tot kryg/
die nimmermeer in vrede/ maar stadig in stryden en vegten ten agteren waren/
door welken het by kwam dat ze geen meer Steden in Friesland bouwden.

Byzonder dat ze dezen Hoog-geëerden plaatze van Stavo/
haren Hoog-geagten [p.5] Godt/
niet eer tot een Stad maakten/
't welk ook nu nog niet zoude hebben geschied/
en hadden ze door zonderlinge schikkinge Godts/
tegens zyne geboorte en toekomst niet in stilligheid geweest/
en haar met de gehele weereld van stryden onthouden.

~ En zo nu al de weereld van Keyzer Augusto beschreven/
en eenen zekeren Tribuit en Schattinge opgelegt wierde/
is onder allen dit Friesland
('t welk om zyn Strydbare daden beroemt was)
ook niet vergeten/
dat op zekeren somme den Keyzerryke Jaarlyks te geven/
ook deze tyd gezet is;
in welk gebruik en bezwaarnisse zy ook onderhouden en gebleven zyn/
zo lange en ter tyd toe/
dat zy namaals door hare zeer vrome daden/
en grote feiten van Wapenen/
die ze den Keyzer en zynen Ryke bewezen/
van Carolo Magno daar weder van ontslagen en bevryd zyn.

~ Anno een/
na de geboorte Christi zyn deze Friezen
(want zy haar niet lange in stilligheid konden begeven/
vermits haar onrustig herte dat tot alle Kryg en onrust genegen waar)
tot Stavoren/
door het gebod van haren Prince Azinga Ascon zeer sterk vergadert/
met welken hy in Betavien
('t welk nu Holland hiet)
getogen is/
daar hy dien volke zeer moeyelyk geweest/
en met Krygshandel zeer bezwaart heeft/
dog zelven zeer doodlyk met een Flitspyl geraakt zynde/
heeft hy zyn volk tot aftrekken/
en wederkeeren zeer sterkelyk vermaant/
die nogtans zeer daar over uit waren/
om het leet van haren Heere te wreken:
Dog ziende de flauwigheid van zyn kwetsuuren/
zyn hem te wille geweest/
niet min razende als grammelyk ontsteken zynde/
dat ze haars Princen aangedane leed/
en ongevalligheid mogten wreken.

~ Als Azinga Ascon nu weder t'huis kwam/
is hy van zyn volk op zyn Kasteel of Slot/
het welk ontrent op een half uur gaans op het Zuidoost van Stavoren lag/
zeer krank en zwak zynde/ gebragt/
daar hy een tyd lang te bedde heeft gelegen in zulken elendigheid/
dat men niet dan zyn dood/
en het afscheiden van deze weereld/
van hem dagelyks verwagtende waar.

Niet te min/
hy is door goede toezigt van zyne Meesters ten laatsten een weinig gebetert;
't welk als de Friezen vernamen/
zyn ze buiten weten van hem weder na den Bataviers getogen/
dien ze met zulken ernst bevogten en aangegrepen hebben/
dat ze uit den zelven over de vyf hondert versloegen/
dewelke haar niet min als vrome Krygsluiden den Friezen tegen stelden;
en ook ontrent drie hondert uit den zelven ombragten.

Nogtans vermits de Friezen zeer het leet van haren Prince begeerden te wreken/
zyn ze met zulken furie en razernie den Bataviers [p.6] aangevallen/
dat ze de zelve door dien op de vlugt kregen.

Na welken zy het Land met roof en brand zeer verwoesteden/
en trokken daar na met een goede buit wederom na huis;
't welk haar Heere horende/
heeft een grote vermakinge daar in gehad/
niet tegenstaande hy/
om het uittrekken van haar/
eerst zeer gestoort en vertoornt was.

~ Na dezen hebben de Bataviers met de Friezen eenen zeer vasten drie jarigen Vrede gemaakt/
om goede vriendschap en nabuurschap met malkanderen te houden/
't welk alles/ naar inhoud van dien/ zeer wel geobserveert wierde.

~ Diacorus Segon een zeer ervaren en dapper Krygsman/
heeft Kaarle Brabon, de tweede Hertog van Braband/ lange gedient;
zo dat hy meest zestien gehele Jaren diens Hof gevolgt/
en in veel Krygstogten/ zo wel zonder zynen Heere/ als met zynen Heere/ geweest is.

Niet tegenstaande dien/
heeft hy in 't afgewezen zyns Heeren allen handel zo uitgerigt/
dat hy tot allen tyden een groten lof en roem daar afgedragen/
en by yder een verworven en verkregen heeft.

~ In 't Jaar onzes Heeren vier/
heeft hy door lang bidden en aanstaan zeer zwaarlyk by zynen Heere afdankinge en verlof gekregen.
Want hy van zynen Heere en Neve Azinga Ascon zeer ernstelyk t'huis ontboden/ en verschreven was.

~ Willende nu reizen/
heeft de Hertog zyn bywezen en tegenwoordigheid nog agt dagen lang begeert/
in welke tyd hy open Hof voor allen Ridderschap gehouden heeft/
staande Segon,
zyn getrouwen Dienaar in 't begin van dien/
met grote solemniteit Ridder/
't welk hy door zonderlinge oorzaken tot dien dag to uitgestelt hadde/
heeft hem/
na de gehouden Feeste/
met grote geschenken eerbiedelyk na zynen Lande laten reizen/
en zeer hertelyk begeerende/
zo het mogelyk waar/
weder by hem te komen.

Midzomer in 't voorsz. Jaar van vier/
ontsprong op 't Zuidwest van den Berg/
die men het Rode Clif noemt/
omtrent tien treden daar van/
een vuurige vlamme/
drie dagen duurende/
uit der aarden/
en den vierden dag daar na kwam daar eenen groten Draak uit vliegen/
die zig zeer hoog in de lugt verhief/
tot een verschrikkinge van velen;
en na dat hy omtrent een half uur zig zo hoog in de lugt vertoont hadde/
is hy weder nedergedaalt/
vliegende in der aarde/
daar hy uit gekomen was/
en is daar na nooit weder gezien.

~ Hier na als men schreef na de geboorte onzes Heeren vijf/
is Azinga Ascon met grote Veirkragt na de Noordsche Landen getogen/
makende Diocarium, zynen Neve/
opperste Veldheer van 't [p.7] gehele Regiment/
heeft aan alle kanten in zyne doortogt grote schade bedreven:
Dog hy is ten laatsten van den Deenschen Koning weder te rugge gejaagt/
die hem ook onderschept hadde/
en zoude hem verslagen hebben/
had de vromigheid zyns Capiteins hem daar niet uit gereddet/
die door zyn vrezelyke slagen een verschrikkinge in het Deensche Krygsvolk bragte/
daar bleven niet boven de anderhalf hondert Mannen aan weder zyden.

~ Na dezen toog de Prince Ascon in het Zuid op/
dede daar zynen Neve de opperste Veldheer zeer grote daden/
door welken hy ten laatsten keerde na 't Land van Tongeren/
dat hy met roof en brand in den eersten aanvang zeer vernielde/
't welk hem Diocarius geerne belet en afgeraden hadde/
dog heeft zynen zin nog door smeken/
nog door geenderleye dingen konnen veranderen.

Zo dat hy ten laatsten van hem afscheid begeerde/
en paspoort van hem verkregen heeft/
is alzo weder met etlyke van zyne Knegten/
die hem in Friesland zouden geleiden/ afgetogen.

En na dat ze hem binnen de Limyten/
en Palen van Friesland gebragt hadden/
heeft hy ze wederom na het Leger van zynen Heere gezonden.

~ Kaarle; de voorsz. Hertog van Braband/
ziende des Princen Asconis stoute voornemen/
is zeer te onvreden en gestoort daar door geweest;/
nogtans om Diocarum zyns lieven en getrouwen Dienaars wille/
heeft hy hem gebeden/
en vermaant van zyn moetwillig voornemen af te staan/
en zyne Onderzaten met vrede te laten/
want Tongeren dier tyd onder zyn gebied mede was;
dog Ascon zulks veragtende/
is evenwel in zyn zin onveranderlyk gebleven.

't Welk ziende de Hertog/
heeft kragt van volk daar tegen geschikt/
die omtrent Ascons regement/
ook Leger geslagen hebben.

En na dat ze dus ettelyke dagen stil gelegen hadden/
is de Prince Ascon zelfs met twee voor den dag uitgereden/
om alle gelegentheid van haren Leger te verspieden/
't welk als zy 't door nauwe wagtneminge wys geworden zyn/
hebben hem onverziens besprongen/
die zig zeer vromelyk ter weer stelde/
want hy liever dood/ als levendig/
den Hertog overgelevert begeerde te wezen.

~ Ten laatsten als hy eenige doodlyke wonden gekregen hadde/
is hy voor dood nedergevallen/
na welken des Hertogs volk hem afgenomen/
en in haren Leger gebragt hebben;
't welk ziende de Friezen dat het met haren Heere dus verging/
hebben haar Leger weder opgebroken/
en zyn zonder iets meer te doen/
wederom t'Huis gekomen.

~ De Prince Ascon is weder tot hem zelven gekomen/
zeer [p.8] zwaarlyk beklagende zyn ongeval/
die spoedig daar na den Hertog overgelevert is/
die hem in zyn stout voornemen zeer strengelyk berispt heeft:
daar op hy anders niet geantwoord heeft/ dan/
doet met my/
na dat myn werken en daden dat wel verdient hebben/
want ik meer den dood/
als het leven begeere.

Daar op de Hertog zeide:
ons zoude zulks ook wel behagen/
en ontrieden ons Diocarus verdiensten en getrouwigheden zulks niet/
daarom dat gy tegens ons/
en onze Onderzaten mishandelt hebt/
zy hem in recompens en vergeldinge van zyn getrouwheden nu weder geschonken/
hoewel deze nog veels te klein zyn om by de zyne gerekent en geagt te worden;
na welken/
als hy nu weder begon te genezen/
de Hertog hem Diocarum zynen getrouwen vriend/
en liefsten dienaar weder toegezonden/
en t'huis geschikt heeft.

~ Na dezen/
als de Prince Ascon nu gants weder genezen was/
heeft hy zynen Neve Diocarum aan den Hertog van Braband gezonden/
dien hy grotelyks van zyne aangedane weldaden heeft laten bedanken/
hem met aller ootmoet voorts biddende dat'er voortaan een vaste/
langduurende vrede tusschen hun beiden gemaakt/
gesloten en onderhouden mogte worden/
als 't ook geschiede;
want de Hertog het des te liever consenteerde/
vermits het door zynen getrouwen Segon begeert en verzogt wierde/
die dog uit zyns Heeren name niet zoude mogen begeeren/
dat hem door zyn voorgaande getrouwigheid geweigert mogte werden/
en na dat'er grote giften aan weder zyden geschonken waren/
heeft de Hertog met verzekerde Brieven van 't voorgaande verzoek/
Diocarum weder na Friesland gezonden.

~ Hier na heeft'er grote vriendschap tusschen beide Heeren en Landschappen geweest/
en Azinga Ascon, de overste van Friesland/
is in 't elfste Jaar na de geboorte Christi overleden/
en uit deze Weereld gescheiden/
en heeft een zeer standvastig einde gehad/
betrouwende zynen Godt Stavo/
dien hy in groter eeren hield/
zoude hem tot in een beter Land over voeren/
daar hy vastelyk op vertrouwde.

Hy was een zeer goedertieren Heer over zyne Onderdanen/
waar door hy ook bemind by haar is geweest;
hy liet geen kinderen agter/
door welken de Friezen zynen Neve Segon tot haren Heere verkoren/
die ze ook wel geregeert heeft;
hy hield goede vrede met zyn Nabuuren/
zo dat Friesland van den Jare van zes-en-veertig geen verzoek/
of aanstoot van vyanden hadde.
En hy stierf in dat zelve Jaar
in 't negen-en't-zeventigste Jaar zyns Ouderdoms.

~ Alle de tyd zyn'er regeringe oeffende hy zyn volk tot den Krygshandel/
op dat wanneer haar zulks nodig was/
zy haar [p.9] als dan wisten daar mede te behelpen/
hy hielde ook tot dien einde zekere Plaatzen of Scholen op verscheiden oorden des Lands/
bezonder in de stad Stavoren/
daar inne de Jeugd drie reis 's weeks by malkanderen kwamen/
om zig in zodanigen handel/
en ook in alle Ridderlyke spelen te oeffenen/
want hy vreesde dat haar den langduurende vrede/
zulks in ongewoonte zoude brengen.

~ Dibbalt Segon,
zynen oudsten Zone is hem in de regeringe na gevolgt/
in 't uitgaan van 't Jaar zes-en-veertig/
hy was ook een stoutmoedig Man/
en in alle Ridderlyke spelen wel geoeffent;
in 't begin zyn'er regeringe
was'er eenen groten Hongersnood over Friesland/
en ook over de omleggende naastpalende Landen.

Nogtans zo veel hem mogelyk was/
heeft hy zorgvuldige wagt over zyne Onderdanen gedragen/
en aan alle oorden Schepen uitgezonden
om der Onderzaten noot te hulp te komen/
door welken hy zeer bemint/
en eenen groten lof by haar verworven heeft.

~ Deze Dibbalt,
vermits hy nu zeer van natuurs wegen tot Krygshandel geneigt was/
stelde Richoudt een uit zyne Dassalen/
om in zyn afwezen Friesland te regeren/
ende trok by Claudium den Roomschen Keizer/
dien hy in veel tochten ten dienste ende wille was/
keerde ten laatsten met grote eere rykelyk begaaft/
van den Keizer/
als men schreef na onzes Heeren geboorte een-en-vyftig/
weder na Friesland/
daar hy van zyne Onderdanen zeer blydelyk ontfangen wierde.

~ Anno agt-en-vyftig trok Dibbalt voorschreven Oostwaarts op/
daar hy overal de Inwoonders grote schade aandede.

Ten laatsten is hy na Duitsland gekeerd/
daar hy van 's gelyken alle dingen na hem verdorf/
door welken hy de wreedheid des volks grotelyks verwekte/
zo dat hy zyn gevaar voor oogen ziende/
te rugge geweken is/
in welk te rugge wyken hy over de agt hondert man verloor/
ende is ten laatsten zonder iets loffelyks te doen na Friesland gekeerd.

~ Hy heeft door deze voorschreven togt zeer veel vyanden verwekt/
zo dat hy Friesland niet in zulk een vrede als zynen Vader gehouden ende bewaart heeft/
ende vermits hy hier na in een langduurende ziekte viel/
hebben zyne Onderdanen veel aanstoots van de Oostersche en Noordsche Landen geleden/
daar hy zelfs de principaalste cause en oorzaak van is geweest.

~ Anno twee-en-zestig
verwekten de Oostersche Landen den Deenschen Koning tegens de Friezen/
die een grote magt van Volk in Friesland zond/
daar ze overal grote schade bedreven/
ende ten laatsten rykelyk weder na hare Landen keerden.

[p.10]

~ Van deze tyd af/
tot den Jare onzes Heeren agt-en-zestig/
deden de voornoemde Volkeren altemets spring-reizen in Friesland/
tot groot nadeel van de Inwoonderen/
waar door Dibbalt haar Heer nu weder in goede gezontheid zynde/
Anno negen-en-zestig
een grote Heirkragt van Volk by een vergaderde/
daar hy mede na Denemarken woude/
doch vermits 'er een onstuimige wind was/
zyn zyne Schepen zeer verdreven ende beschadigt/
zo dat die togt geen voortgang hadde.

~ Anno zeventig/
is 'er een Vrede tusschen de Deenen ende de Friezen gemaakt/
zes Jaren lang duurende/ waar over de Inwoonders zeer verblyd zyn geweest/
want zy in die tyd van niemand geen aanstoot en hadden/
zo dat het een gelukkige Vrede voor Friesland was.

~ Dibbalt,
hoe wel dat hy zeer tot onrust genegen was/
heeft hy hem nogtans tot den Jare 77. toe/
met geen ding bemoeid/
maar vredelyk zyne Onderdanen geregeert/
niet te min door het aanporren van zynen Veldhoofdman Tabbo,
is hy in het lest van 't voorsz. Jaar/
tegens den Sycambrens getogen/
die haar als dappere Krygsluiden verweerden/
zo dat Dibbalt over de vyf hondert Friezen daar liet/
en is weder te rugge uit haren Lande geslagen/
met grote bespottinge van den voorsz. Sycambrens/
't welk die goede Heer zo zeer ter harten nam/
dat hy daar door in een zware uitteerende krankte gevallen is/
aan welken hy in 't agtste Jaar daar na stierf/
ende wierde na Stavoren gevoerd/
ende aldaar zeer heerlyk begraven.

~ Tabbo,
zyn opperste Veldhoofdman/
is Anno 85.
weder tot een Heere van Friesland opgeworpen en verkoren/
deze was zeer tot Kryg en Oorlog genegen/
en als de Keizer Domitianus in Duitsland/
en principaallyk tegens den Catthen/
die men namaals Hessen noemde/
Oorlog voerde/
is hy den zelve bygetogen/
dien hy in veel togten te wille geweest en gedient heeft/
want het de Vorst en Keizer na zyn zin was/
die beide liever tyrannelyk/
als genadelyk met den overwonnen volken te werke gingen/
en haddet haar veel tyds niet afgeraden en belet geworden.

Hy was den Keizer altyd by/
tot dat men schreef na de geboorte Christi/
Anno 94.
want hy doen eens weder na zyn Land begeerde te reizen/
vermits hem gebootschapt was/
dat de Noordmannen zyn Landen zeer beroofden/
en verwoesten.

~ t'Huis komende/
waren ze al weder uit Friesland vertrokken/
dog hy heeft straks veel Schepen laten toemaken/
om met Heirkragt na de Noordsche Landen te trekken/
dog zyn togt en gelukte niet ten besten/
willende over land na de Deensche Landen toe/
en heeft daar ook weinig eere/
en nog min [p.11] voordeels behaalt/
want hoewel het een goed Krygsman was/
is het hem nogtans contrary en tegen geweest.

~ Na dezen heeft hy hem in stilligheid gegeven/
heeft niemand meer aangevogten/
en is ook van niemand meer aangevogten geweest/
en als hy 77 Jaren oud was geworden/
is hy Anno hondert negen-en-twintig/
daar na gestorven/
'er wierde by zyn tyden weinig zonderlings gebouwt/
want hy de meeste tyd met Krygshandel bezig was.

~ Na dezen hebben ze in't begin van den Jare hondert en dertig Asconium,
de Zoon van Tabbo,
weder in de regeringe in plaats zyns Vaders gekoren/
hy heeft hem geen Heere/
maar een Hertog van Friesland laten noemen;
hy was een zeer haastig Man/
die niet wel zyn toorne konde bedwingen/
was nogtans evenwel een goed Heer tegens zyne Onderzaten.

Daar wierden heel schone Huizen en Dorpen/
als Westerwierum niet verre van Friesland/
Dykshorne tusschen Almenum en ter Schelling/
en Westerbierum/
omtrent een half uur gaans Noordelyker/
by zynen tyde gebouwt/
want hy vast vrede tegens zyne Nabuuren hielt;
hy liet grote neerstigheid doen om het Land te bouwen/
en te verbeteren/
zo dat de Onderzaten onder zyn regeringe veel prospereerden:
en als'er eenig Oorlog in de omleggende Landen op handen was/
zond hy zyn Ambassaten/
en Gezanten om 't zelvige neder te leggen/
en te bestillen/
zo dat hy hem een groten naam daar door verworf/
hy wierde in de omleggende Landen
den alder vreedzaamsten Prince genoemt.

Want zo veel hy vermogt/
is altyd van hem belet
dat'er geen Oorlog by de Nabuuren tegens malkanderen aangenomen wierde;
alle zyne studien waren om het Land te verbeteren/
zyne geneugte in Jagen en Wildvang te hebben/
en boven al zyn Onderzaten in goede rust/
en vrede te onderhouden.

~ Onder dezes regeringe/
te weten Anno 155.
is by den Berg van 't Rode Clif den vuurigen Put weder opgebroken/
en brande zeer vreeslyk agt dagen lang/
zo dat het een grote verschikkinge by yder een maakte/
namentlyk by den genen die daar naast om gelegen waren.

Daar wierde grote neerstigheid gedaan om te weten wat het dog wezen mogte/
dog men heeft'er eigentlyk niet van konnen vernemen/
en na dat het zo agt dagen gebrand en zeer hoog gevlamt hadde/
en men nergens digt by konde komen/
zo is't van zelfs weder toegedaan;
men vermoede daar zoude een grote Sterfte of Pestilentie op volgen/
dog Stavo/
haar voornaamste Afgodt/
van dezen gevraagt zynde/
zeide: dat zulks niet was te vrezen/
want daar zoude na [p.12] langheid van tyd een zeer koude materie na volgen/
zo dat ze door des Afgodts antwoord gepaaid/
en weder getroost zyn geweest.

~ ~ ~

[LATER VOORT TE ZETTEN - to be continued]

For more see:
first post of this blog with more transliterated text from Scharlensis.
and:
PDF of the 1742 edition

09 November 2012

Priory of Sion ~ Prestera Sidonis?


[060/23] THA GOLA. ALSA HÉTON. THA SÀNDALINGA.PRESTERA SÍDON.IS

[Ottema & Sandbach p.85]
De Golen, zoo heetten de zendeling-priesters van Sydon  
The Golen, as the missionary priests of Sidon were called

Could there be a link with the Priory of Sion?

The etymology of the word Zion (ṣiyôn) is uncertain. Mentioned in the Bible in the Book of Samuel (2 Samuel 5:7) as the name of the jesusite fortress conquered by King David, its origin likely predates the Israelites. If Semitic, it may be derived from the Hebrew root ''ṣiyyôn ("castle") or the Hebrew ṣiyya ("dry land," Jeremiah 51:43). A non-Semitic relationship to the Hurrian word ¨eya ("river" or "brook") has also been suggested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zion

Sidon (whose name in classical Arabic is: صَيْدونْ (Saydoon)) has been inhabited since very early in prehistory. The archaeological site of Sidon II shows a lithic assemblage dating to the Acheulean, whilst finds at Sidon III include a Heavy Neolithic assemblage suggested to date just prior to the invention of pottery. It was one of the most important Phoenician cities, and may have been the oldest. From here, and other ports, a great Mediterranean commercial empire was founded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidon

Prior ~ Prester: http://www.etymonline.com

prior (n.) "superior officer of a religious house or order," late Old English, from L. prior "former, superior" (see prior (adj.)).

prior (adj.) 1714, from L. prior "former, superior," comparative of Old L. pri "before" (see prime (adj.)), related to L. præ "before" (see pre-).

pre- prefix meaning "before," from O.Fr. pre- and M.L. pre-, both from L. prae (adv.) "before," from PIE *prai- (cf. Oscan prai, Umbrian pre, Skt. pare "thereupon," Gk. parai "at," Gaul. are- "at, before," Lith. pre "at," O.C.S. pri "at," Goth. faura, O.E. fore "before"), variant of root per- "beyond." The Latin word was active in forming compound verbs.

priest (n.) O.E. preost, shortened from the older Germanic form represented by O.S., O.H.G. prestar, O.Fris. prestere, from V.L. *prester "priest," from L.L. presbyter "presbyter, elder," from Gk. presbyteros (see Presbyterian). In Old Testament sense, a translation of Hebrew kohen, Gk. hiereus, L. sacerdos.

~

My thoughts on this:

"Zion" may be based on "Sidon", "prior" and "priest" may have same origin and similar meaning.

"Priory of Sion" is a hoax created in 1956 and used in the Davinci Code, but the term is possibly, partly inspired by the OLB term "PRESTERA SÍDON.IS".

It is at least remarkable that both PS were located in France.

======

View PostAbramelin, on 09 November 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:
Sidon never changed into Zion/Sion, or visa versa,
I just want to say this: juggling words and adding and deleting letters from a word to prove a point is kid's play.
It has nothing to do with real linguistics and etymology.

It is obvious that Zionists will not like the idea that their name has its origin in (or is linked to) Sidon in Lebanon.

Here are some arguments why Sidon and Sion/Zion may be related:

1. The etymology of the word Zion is uncertain. wiki/Zion

2. Sidon has been inhabited since very early in prehistory. [...] It was one of the most important Phoenician cities, and may have been the oldest. From here, and other ports, a great Mediterranean commercial empire was founded. wiki/Sidon

3. There are many examples of toponyms having the same origin or being named after older ones.

4. The 'd' between vowels can easily disappear.
Example:
pion zn. ‘schaakstuk’ [...] oorspr. ‘infanterist, voetknecht’ [ca. 1180; TLF], ontwikkeld uit middeleeuws Latijn pedo (genitief pedonis) ‘infanterist, voetknecht’, een afleiding van klassiek Latijn pēs (genitief pedis) ‘voet’ [...] etymologiebank/pion
(chess piece pawn - dutch: pion - is derived from Latin pedon)

======

View PostAbramelin, on 12 November 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:
And I added a piece from Caesar's Bello Gallico,where he mentions the Sedunii living near the Upper Rhone, and whose capital's name later changed into Sion.

There you have it.
If SEDUN can change into SION, then even more obviously, so can SIDON.

Quote
And the etymology of 'Zion' may be uncertain, but that doesn't mean you can simply add a -D- to make it look like Sidon.

"If Semitic, it may be derived from the Hebrew root ''ṣiyyôn ("castle") or the Hebrew ṣiyya ("dry land," Jeremiah 51:43). A non-Semitic relationship to the Hurrian word šeya ("river" or "brook") has also been suggested"

Note the underlinings. Your official etymologists are merely guessing.

I don't simply add a D to SION, I leave out the one from SIDON, and I demonstrated why that is valid, with the PEDON - PION example.

If we can practice alternative history here, I donot see why we cannot include alternative etymology.

29 October 2012

λόγος <= LOGHA => LVX

Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:52 PM
The Old-Greek word λόγος (logos) is "an important term in philosophy, psychology, rhetoric, and religion". (wikipedia/Logos)

It is still used in words ending with -logy (biology etc.), logic, logarithm, etc.

I suspect that it is related to the Old-Frisian word LOGHA (flame).

[flame]
logi - icelandic, oldnorse
loga, logha - oldfrisian

[light]
ljós - icelandic
lys, ljos - danish, norse
ljus - swedish
ljocht - frisian
lux - latin

The flame is associated with the tongue.

Vlam: "Min of meer tongvormig, of als zoodanig gedacht of voorgesteld zichtbaar verbrandingsverschijnsel..." (http://gtb.inl.nl)
(=> "more or less tongue-shaped...)

vlam [tongvormig verbrandingsverschijnsel] (P.A.F. van Veen en N. van der Sijs (1997), Van Dale Etymologisch woordenboek)
(=> again: "tongue-shaped ..."

In OLB it is used as LOGHA at the following pages/lines:

[049/22]
[066/07]
[082/32]
[084/16]
[084/23]
[120/27]
[162/14] 2x

Compare relation tongue/ speech: (Latin) LINGUA - language, tongue.
In Dutch it is common metaphor to say "flames licked ..." (vlammen likten ...).

Classic etymology relates logos to the verb legein - to speak.

In Dutch we use liegen (past: loog) for to lie

======

Posted by Abramelin 23 October 2012 - 01:51 PM
 
Old Dutch: liegon
Old Saxon: liogan
Middle Low German: legen
Old High German: liogan
New High Herman: lügen
Old Frisian:  liāga
New Frisian: lige
Old English: lēogan
New English: lie
Old Norse: ljúga
New Swedish: ljuga
Gotic: liugan

Old Church Slavonic:lŭgati
Russian: lgat
Lithuanian:  lugóti (= to request)

Related Dutch verb: lokken (= to lure)
Related Dutch word: loochenen (= to deny)

http://www.etymologi...refwoord/liegen

======

Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:09 PM

I would like to add the consideration that what λόγος (logos; the Word, reason) was in our culture (which is based on Greco-Christian thinking), the FODDIK (eternal, sacred fire, with its LOGHA; flames) seems to have been for the Fryans (as desribed in the OLB).
======

Posted by Abramelin 23 October 2012 - 05:23 PM
 
I had to think of another thing: the Celtic god LUG.

The etymology of Lugdunum is a latinization of the Gaulish place name Lugodunon. Gaulish was the predominant language of the region when conquered by the Romans. While dunon means hill fort, the source of Lug is uncertain. The most commonly offered meaning is the Celtic god named Lug, whose messenger was the crow (lugus), and who was associated with the cock (rooster), ultimately to become the symbol of France. Most references to Mercurius in Gaul really refer to Lug, as he was the Celtic god that the Romans considered to be Mercury (see interpretatio graeca for more about this practice). Lug was popular in Ireland and Britain, but there is no evidence of his cult or worship in Lugdunum, except for the apparent use of crows as an early symbol of the city. An alternative derivation is that lug refers to the Celtic word for light (a cognate of Latin lux and English light).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugdunum

The exact etymology of Lugus is unknown and contested. The Proto-Celtic root of the name, *lug-, is generally believed to have been derived from one of several different Proto-Indo-European roots, such as *leug- "black", *leuǵ- "to break",[4] and *leugʰ- "to swear an oath", It was once thought that the root may be derived from Proto-Indo-European *leuk- "to shine", but there are difficulties with this etymology and few modern scholars accept it as being possible (notably because Proto-Indo-European *-k- never produced Proto-Celtic *-g-).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugus

A rooster calling at the dawn, a crow as a spiritual 'messenger' in many cultures around the globe..

LUG, seen by the Romans as no other god but their Mercury, the god of (also) speech, and communication in general. messages, writing, and so on.

Then a (possible but disputed) connection with bright, shining and light.

And last but not least, Overwijn (the third writer to publish a book, including a translation, about the OLB in 1941/1951) who tried to explain many words and names in the OLB using Celtic.
======

It makes sense to me:
foddik = fire = flames (tongues) = light = inspiration = messages = words = communication, etc.

LOGHA'S magic

when you look into a flame long enough it will turn into a tongue and start to speak

imagine long dark and quiet nights, no books, radio, tv, internet

act during the day
reflect during the night

I bet many great ideas started by looking at the moon, the stars and into flames at night.

======

Posted by Van Gorp 25 October 2012 - 01:18 AM
Interesting, first feeling is "How to reconcile the meaning of (sun)light (of the truth) with the lie"
-> Blinding light, we can't see clear.  Laaiend enthusiast zijn we dan.

Liegen, loochenen, lokken -> verblinden.
Leuk is aan-lokkelijk: we get attracted by the light it transmits.  But sometimes also blinded by it.

Other expressions: Liegen dat em zwart ziet (or he's lieing untill his nose becomes black or smoke above his head, from fire offcourse)

Alok: Indian name for Light (Hel-lig, Al Hoog, Halo).
Some other linguisitc connections (maybe allready mentionned, but it's amusing)

op-lichten: giving light but also to cheat
op-luchten: dat licht op, zuiverend, make pure

er licht/lucht over gaan, doodleuk, luchtig, een klucht -> joke, jokken, liegen
de luchter/luster: the holder of candles -> met veel luister gebracht -> erin geluisd

======

Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:47 AM
More about LOGHA (flame), the probable origin of both lux (the light) and logos (the word).

~

TNZN - Taalatlas van Noord- en Zuid-Nederland



Etymologisch dialectenwoordenboek (1996), A.A. Weijnen
~

Westfries woordenboek (1984) Jan Pannekeet
(Dictionary of Westfrisian dialect)

loef, znw. de/'t
1. Loefzijde
2. Zwarte walm of aanslag van o.a. een petroleumlamp of -stel.
Zegsw. teugen de loef in strouke, tegen de haren in strijken.
- Teugen de loef in weze, tegen de draad in zijn, dwars zijn.

loeg, znw. 't. Verouderde variatie van loef 2.

loege, w.w. Verouderde variatie van loeve, zie aldaar.

loeve, w.w. Ook: walmen, loef afgeven. Vgl. loef. / 't Lichie loeft.

~

In OLB (original page/ line nrs.)

[010/25]
THJU LOFT WÀRT SWART ÀND NÍLOF FON TÁRA TO STIRTANE

[010/29]
BLIXEN SKRÉF AN.THÀT LOFT.RVM. WÁK.

[012/11]
FJUWER THINGA SEND TO JVWE NOT JÉVEN.
MITH NÁMA. LOFT. WÉTER. LÁND ÀND FJUR.


[026/06]
SEND THÉR SVM THRVCH THENE FYAND FAT
ÀND KVMATH HJA TO BÀK
SA MOT MÀN HJAM FÉR FON THÀT KÀMP OF FORA.
HWAND HJA MACHTON FRY LÉTEN WÉSA BY ÀRGE LOFTUM
ÀND THAN NE MÜGON HJA HJARA LOFTA NAVT NI HALDA
ÀND TACH ÉRLIK BILÍWA.


[049/16]
LOFT WÀRTH ALTHUS DROV ÀND DIMME.

[068/30]
MIN.ERVA SÉIDE
HALD OF HWAND HIR IS THJU LOFT ÔLANGNE VRPEST
THRVCH THA PRESTERA.


[119/06]
THES NACHTES SKÁTON HJA BARN.PILA ANDA LOFT.

[201/19]
THÀT FOLK WÉRMITH HI WITH THA SALT.ÁTHUM THERA GOLUM KÀMPED HÉDE
HÉD.ER UT.A SAXANA.MARKUM LVKTH
MITH LOFTE FON GRÁTE HÉRA.RÁVE ÀND BUT.


Also: LOV / LOVE as used in OLB can be related.

======

Posted 26 October 2012 - 03:27 PM

View PostVan Gorp, on 26 October 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:
Maybe we can add Locus (location, space, open ruimte) besides Lux, Logos [...]

Posted Image

From LOGA / LOGHA (flame/ fire) to LOGE (lodge, location, camp, place to live)

[048/15]
BUTA ÀND BIHALVA HÉDON VSA STJURAR ÀND KÁPLJVD MÉNI LOGE
ANDA HÉIND KRÉKELANDA ÀND TO LYDJA.


[Ottema/ Sandbach p.69]
Bovendien hadden onze zeelieden en kooplieden menige loods (factorij)
in de heinde Krekalanden (Italie) en in Lydia.
Moreover, our sailors and merchants had many factories
among the distant Krekalanders and in Lydia.


[059/30]
HI WROCHTE THAT TÜNIS BI THÉRE MVDE FON.T.FLÍ.MAR EN LOGE BVWA MACHTE.

[Ottema/ Sandbach p.85]
hij bewerkte dat Teunis bij de mond van het Flymeer een pakhuis bouwen mocht.
he induced Teunis to build a warehouse at the mouth of the Flymeer.

Ottema and Sandbach translated loods/ pakhuis and factory/ warehouse, but camp or lodge would have been correct too.

French: loger = to make a camp
English: lodge
Middle English: logge

A home, a place to stay (if only for a while) is a place with a fire, to stay warm and have light during the night.

Home is where the hearth is.



That is how LOGHA (fire) became LOGE (camp, lodge).
 ======

What the hearth is for a house (the warming center), the heart is (or was thought to be) for the body.

heart - english
hjärta - swedish
hjarta - icelandic
hjerte - danish, norwegian
herz - german
hart - dutch
hert - frisian
HIRTA / HIRTE / HIRT - Fryas

hearth - english
herd - german
haard - dutch
hurd - frisian
HÉRD - Fryas

15 October 2012

SOK-RAT ~ seek reason

SOCRATES => SOK-RAT = ZOEK-RAAD / -REDE= seek reason/ rationality/ counsel/ advice

al-Kindi, a well-known Arabic philosopher, introduced and tried to reconcile Socrates and Hellenistic philosophy to an Islamic audience, referring to him by the name 'Suqrat'. (wiki/Socrates)

=> just like I said: Soeck Raedt!
So his name actually meant philosophy.

OLB: BOK
English: book
Dutch: boek
German: buch
Swedish: bok

OLB: GOD
English: good
Dutch: goed
German: gut
Swedish: gott

OLB: SOK
English: 'sook' (seek, search)
Dutch: 'soek' (zoek)
German: such
Swedish: sök

OLB: RÉD
English: 'read', rationality, reason, counsel, advice
Dutch: raad, rede, rationaliteit
German: rat
Swedish: råd




Or... zoek (het) rad = seek (the) wheel

 


======

Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:29 PM
NO-ID-EA, on 16 October 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:
With the words Sok- red for Socrates , bear in mind the closeness of the two word Sac-red , and Sec-ret... These may fall in line with Higgins theory ...

Creative idea, ID, but sacred seems to be derived from sacer (holy),
and secret from se-cernere (to separate oneself).

~

Higgins inspired me too.

"Almost all the latter part of my life has been spent
unlearning the nonsense I learned in my youth"
~ Godfrey Higgins (1772-1833)

11 October 2012

Diotima, teacher of Socrates

Diotima by Józef Simmler, 1855
Aristotle (384 – 322 BCE) was a student of
Plato (c. 423 – c. 347 BCE), who was a student of
Socrates (c. 469 – 399 BCE), who was a student of... a woman!
(according to Plato)

Her name was Diotima and she taught Socrates the philosophy of love.



~ ~ ~

Here is a fragment of Plato's Symposium, which reminds me of an OLB fragment (see below).

(It is not a strong argument for anything (yet), I just share it for now because I think parallels like this are interesting.)

Translation by Benjamin Jowett (1817 – 1893) Source

[207d-e: dialogue Diotima-Socrates]

Nay even in the life of the same individual there is succession and not absolute unity:
a man is called the same,
and yet in the short interval which elapses between youth and age,
and in which every animal is said to have life and identity,
he is undergoing a perpetual process of loss and reparation—
hair, flesh, bones, blood, and the whole body are always changing.
Which is true not only of the body, but also of the soul,
whose habits, tempers, opinions, desires, pleasures, pains, fears,
never remain the same in any one of us,
but are always coming and going;
and equally true of knowledge, and what is still more surprising to us mortals,
not only do the sciences in general spring up and decay,
so that in respect of them we are never the same;
but each of them individually experiences a like change.


(Original Greek text here)

~ ~ ~

OLB original manuscript p.102 lines 9-30 ~ "thet ôthera dél fonre form-lér"

[Dutch translation 1872 Ottema ~ p.141]

Maar doordien zijn leven steeds voortgaat,
zoo kan er ook niets op zijne plaats blijven.
Daarom verwisselen alle geschapene dingen van plaats,
van gedaante en ook van denkwijze.
Daarom mag de aarde zelve, noch eenig schepsel zeggen:
ik ben, maar wel: ik was.
Ook mag geen mensch zeggen: ik denk, maar bloot: ik dacht.
De knaap is grooter en anders als toen hij een kind was.
Hij heeft andere begeerten, neigingen en denkwijze.
De man en vader is en denkt anders als toen hij knaap was.
Even zoo de oude van dagen. Dat weet iedereen.
Bijaldien nu iedereen weet, en moet erkennen, dat hij steeds wisselt,
zoo moet hij ook bekennen, dat hij ieder oogenblik wisselt; ook terwijl hij zegt: ik ben;
en dat zijne denkbeelden veranderen, terwijl hij zegt: ik denk.


[English translation 1876 Sandbach ~ p.141]

but whereas his life is continually progressing,
nothing can remain stationary,
therefore all created things change their locality,
their form, and their thoughts.
So neither the earth nor any other created object can say,
I am; but rather, I was.
So no man can say, I think; but rather, I thought.
The boy is greater and different from the child;
he has different desires, inclinations, and thoughts.
The man and father feels and thinks differently from the boy,
the old man just the same. Everybody knows that.
Besides, everybody knows and must acknowledge that he is now changing,
that he changes every minute even while he says, I am,
and that his thoughts change even while he says, I think.