RJUCHT, ÉWA, SETMA, DOMAR ~ justice & jurisdiction

"Gerechtikaeit" by Lucas
Cranach the Old, c.1537

Much rather than the concept of race (as dr. Jensma suggests), the question of right and wrong, just and unjust plays a main role in the OLB, in my opinion. This post is a first exploration in that direction.

rjocht - frisian
recht - dutch, german
right - english
rett - norse
rätt - swedish
ret - danish
réttur - icelandic

Manuscript [032/03] with my improvised translations – I left Éwa, Setma and Domar untranslated as they are defined in this and future posts.




ÉWA THÀT SÉITH SETMA
THÉR BI ALLER MÀNNISKA É.LIK AN HJARA [5] MOD PRENTH SEND.
TILTHJU HJA MÜGE WÉTA HWAT RJUCHT AND VNRJUCHT SY.
AND HWÉR THRVCH HJA WELDICH SEND
VMBE HJARA ÀJNE DÉDA ÀND THAM FON ÔRUM TO BIRJUCHTANDE.
THÀT WIL SEDSA.
ALSANÁKA HJA GOD ÀND NAVT [10] MISDÉDECH VPBROCHT SEND.

Éwa betekent Setma*,
die bij alle mensen gelijkelijk** in hun gemoed geprent zijn,
opdat zij kunnen weten wat recht en onrecht is,
en waardoor zij machtig zijn
hun eigen daden en die van anderen te berechten,
dat wil zeggen:
voor zover zij goed en niet misdadig opgevoed zijn.
* Ottema: inzettingen, Gtb: zettingen, Hettema: willekeuren, Richthofen: Satzungen (o.a.: gebruiken, gewoontes, mores, omgangsvormen), Wiarda: Verordnungen, geschriebene Gezetse
** É.LIK: zie volgende allinea

Éwa means Setma (rules, statutes),
which are imprinted equally ('é-like', see below) in the mood of all people
in order that they may know what is just and what is unjust [or: right & wrong],
and by which they are able
to judge their own deeds and those of others;
that is,
if they have been brought up well and are not corrupted.



ÁK IS.ER JET.EN ÔRA SIN AN FÀST.
ÉWA SÉIT AK. É.LIK WÉTER.LIK. RJUCHT ÀND SLJUCHT AS WÉTER
THAT THRVCH NÉN STORNE.WIND JEFTA AWET OWERS VRSTOREN IS.

Ook is er nog een andere betekenis aan verbonden:
Éwa (even, effen) betekent ook é-lijk, dat is water-lijk: recht en slecht (vlak, glad) als water
dat door geen stormwind of iets anders verstoord is.

There is also yet another meaning attached;
Éwa also means é-like, that is water-like: even (straight, right) and smooth like water
that is not disturbed by stormwind or anything else.



WARTH WÉTER VRSTOREN SA [15] WARTH.ET VN.ÉWA. VNRJUCHT.
MEN.ET NÍGTH ÉVG VMBE WITHER ÉWA TO WERTHANDE.
THAT LÉITH AN SIN FONSELV.HÉD.
ALSA THA NÍGUNG TO RJUCHT ÀND FRYDOM IN FRYA.S BERN LÉITH.
THESSA NIGUNG HÀVATH WI TRVCH WR.ALDA.S GÁST. VSA FODER.
[20] THÉR IN FRYAS BERN BOGTH THÉRVMBE SKIL HJU VS ÁK ÉVG BIKLÍWA.

Wordt water verstoord, dan wordt het on-Éwa, on-recht,
maar het neigt eeuwig om weer Éwa te worden.
Dat ligt in zijn eigenschap ('vanzelfheid'),
zoals de neiging tot recht en vrijheid in Fryas kinderen ligt.
Deze neiging hebben wij door Wralda's geest*, onze voeder,
die in Fryas kinderen straalt, waardoor die ons ook eeuwig zal beklijven.
* of: de Wereldgeest, de Oer-oude Geest

If water is disturbed, it becomes un-Éwa (uneven), un-right,
but it always has a tendency to become Éwa again.
That is its nature,
just as the inclination towards justice and freedom exists in Frya's children.
We derive this disposition from Wralda's spirit (ghost)*, our feeder,
which speaks strongly in Frya's children, and will thus eternally remain so.
* or: World's spirit, Most-ancient spirit



ÉWA. IS ÁK THET ÔRA SINNA.BYLD FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST.
THÉR ÉVG RJUCHT ÀND VN.FORSTOREN. BILIWATH
AFSKÉN.ET AN SIN LICHÉME ÀRG TO GÉIT.
ÉWA ÀND [25] VNFORSTOREN SEND THA MÀRKA
THÉRA WISDOM ÀND RJUCHTFÉRDICHHÉD
THÉR FON ALLE FRÉMO MÀNNISKA SOCHT
ÀND TRVCH ALLA RJUCHTERA BISÉTEN WRDEN MOT. 

Éwa is ook het andere zinnebeeld van Wralda's geest,
die eeuwig recht en onverstoord blijft,
ofschoon het in er zijn lichaam erg aan toe gaat.
Éwa en onverstoord zijn de kenmerken
der wijsheid en rechtvaardigheid
die door alle vrome mensen gezocht
en door alle rechters bezeten worden moeten.

Éwa is also the other symbol of Wralda's spirit,
which eternally remains just and undisturbed,
although in his physical body there may be rage.
Éwa and undisturbed are the signs
of wisdom and righteousness,
which must be sought after by all pious people,
and must be possessed by all judges.



WILLATH THA MÀNNISKA THUS SETMA [30] ÀND DOMAR MÁKJA
THÉR ALAN GOD BILIWA ÀND ALLERWYKES
SÁ MOTON HJA ÉLIK WÉSA TOFARA ALLE MÀNNISKA [033/01]
NÉI THISSE ÉWA ACHAT THA RJUCHTERA HJARA ORDÉL UT TO KÉTHANDE. 

Willen de mensen dus Setma en Domar* maken,
die altijd goed blijven en overal,
dan moeten ze gelijk* zijn voor alle mensen.
Naar deze Éwa behoren de rechters hun oordeel uit te spreken.
* Setma – zie boven; Domar - 'doemen': oordelen, vonnissen
** é-lijk – zie boven

If thus, the people want to make Setma and Domar (dooms, verdicts, penalties),
which always and everwhere remain good,
they must be equal (é-like) for all people.
According to these Éwa the judges ought to pronounce their decisions.



IS THÉR ENG KWÁD DÉN HWÉRVR NÉN ÉWA TAVLIKT SEND
SA MOT MÀN ÉNE MÉNA ACHT BILIDSA
THÉR [5] ORDÉLTH MÀN NÉI THA SIN THÉR WR.ALDA.S GÁST AN VS KÉTH
VMBE OVER ELLA RJUCHT.FÉRDICH TO BIRJUCHTANDE.
ALTHUS TO DVANDE NE SKIL VS ORDÉL NÀMMER FÁLIKANT UT NE KVMA.

Is er enig kwaad gedaan, waarover geen Éwa vastgelegd zijn,
dan moet men een algemene vergadering ('acht') beleggen.
Daar oordeelt men in de zin, die Wralda's geest aan ons openbaart,
om over alles rechtvaardig te berechten.
Aldus doende zal ons oordeel nimmer falikant uitkomen.

If any evil is done respecting which no Éwa are fixed,
a general assembly shall be called.
There one decides in the sense that Wr-alda's spirit reveals to us,
in order to judge justly about all.
If we do thus, our decision will never fail to be right.




NE DVATH MÀN NÉN RJUCHT MEN [10] VNRJUCHT.
ALSA RIST THÉR TWIST ÀND TWISPALT EMONG THA MÀNNISKA ÀND STÁTA.
THÉR.UT SPRUT INLÁNDISKA ORLOCH.
WÉRTHRVCH ELLA HOMLJATH ÀND VRDÀREN WÀRTH.

Doet men geen recht, maar onrecht,
dan rijst er twist en tweespalt onder de mensen en staten.
Daaruit spruit binnenlandse oorlog,
waardoor alles vernield en bedorven wordt.

If one does no just, but unjust,
there will arise quarrels and discord among people and states.
Out of that civil ('in-landish') war sprouts,
through which all will be destroyed and spoilt.

"Why is Lady Justice blindfolded?" by Albert Hahn (1911)

SIBBA ~ sib, kindred, relatives, tribesmen, family, clan, etc.

varieties in some NW-Eur. languages:
sib - english (related: sibling)
sibb - oldenglish
sibbe - dutch, oldfrisian
sibja - gothic
sibbia - oldsaxon
sippe - german
sifjar - oldnorse

varieties in OLB:
SIBBA (plur.) - 1,4,6,7,8,9,10,11
SIBBA (sing.) - 5
SIBBEN (plur.) - 3
SIBTAL - 2 (see here)

OLB fragments with translations by Ottema and Sandbach
Note the similarity between fragments 2 and 5.


1 [001/28 p.5]
VSA SIBBA AN THA ÔRA SÍD THÉRE WRSARA
onze stamverwanten aan de andere zijde der Wezer
our relatives on the other side of the Weser

2 [016/03 p.27]
THACH HJA NE MÜGON NAVT VPFOLGATH NE WERTHA THRVCH HJARA SIBTAL. ~
NÉJAR SÁ THA FJARDA KNÍ.
maar zij mogen niet opgevolgd worden door hunne nabestaanden*,
nader dan het vierde lid
and shall not be replaced by members of their own family
nearer than the fourth degree
[*note: "nabestaande" means near relative and is now obsolete]

3 [021/05 p.33]
VMBE SKÀT TO GARJA SKOLDE HJA ELLA VRRÉDA
THÀT FOLK. THJU MODER. HJARA SIBBEN ÀND TO THA LESTA HJARA SELVA
Om rijkdom te vergaderen zouden zij alles verraden,
het volk, de Moeder, hunne nabestaanden en ten laatsten zich zelven.
For the sake of money they would betray everybody—
the people, the mother, their nearest relations, and even their own selves.

fragment of Ottonian family tree in a 13th-century manuscript

4 [022/25 p.35]
IS THI KÉNING THRUCH THENE FYAND FALLEN
SA MÜGON SINA SIBBA ÁK NÉI THÉRE ÉRE THINGA
Is de koning door den vijand verslagen,
dan mogen zijne nabestaanden ook naar die eer dingen.
If the king is killed by the enemy,
his nearest relative[s] may be a candidate to succeed him [also aspire for that honour].


5 [022/29 p.35]
SA NE MÉI NÉN SIBBA HIM VPFOLGJA
THÉR.IM NÉIAR SY SA THA FJARDE KNY
dan mag geen bloedverwant hem opvolgen,
die hem nader bestaat dan het vierde lid
he shall not be succeeded by any [then no] blood relation [may succeed him]
nearer than the fourth degree

"sibbekunde": genealogy

6 [027/06 p.41]
FORTH HI EN ÉRE.NÁMA VPPA SINE SKELD FON SINA ÉTHELUN.
SA NE MÜGON SINA SIBBA THI NÁMA NAVT LÔNGER NE FORA.
THÉRVMBE THÀT THI ÉNE SIBBA SVRG SKIL HÀVA OVIRA SÉDE THÉRA ÔTHERA.
Voert hij een eernaam op zijn schild van zijne voorvaderen,
dan mogen zijne nabestaanden dien naam niet langer voeren,
daarom dat de eene bloedverwant zorgdragen zal over de zeden des anderen.
If he bears on his shield the honourable name of his forefathers,
his kinsmen shall no longer wear it,
in order that every man [i.e. family member] may look after the conduct of his [other] relatives.

7 [043/31 p.63]
THA STJVRAR SKOLDON SIN MÀM ÀND AL SINA SIBBA
NÉI EN FÉR É.LAND MOTA BRÀNGA
de zeelieden zouden zijne moeder en al zijne bloedverwanten
naar een afgelegen eiland moeten brengen
The sailors must take his mother and all his relations
to a desolate island
 
8 [061/16 p.87]
THAN MOST.I AN SINA SIBBA ÀND FRIANDA ÀND ÁTHA SKRIWA
dan moest hij aan zijne bloedverwanten, vrienden en aanverwanten schrijven
they made him write to his family, friends, and connections

 

9 [063/11 p.89]
THRVCH SIN VNTOCHT ÀND HÁCH.FÁRENHÉD.
IS ER VAKEN THENE BÁNA SINRA NÉISTA SIBBA WRDEN
door zijn ontucht en zijne hoovaardigheid
is hij vaak de moordenaar zijner naaste bloedverwanten geworden
in his lewdness and his pride
is only fit to murder [he has often become the murderer of] his nearest relations

 
10 [117/01 p.161]
THA STJURAR ÀND ÔR FÁRANDE FOLK. THÉR TO HONK WÉRON.
HÉDE HJARA SELVA MITH MÀGA AND SIBBA VPPIRA SKEPUM HRET.
De zeelieden en ander varensvolk, die te huis waren,
hadden zich zelven gered met magen en bloedverwanten op hunne schepen.
The seafaring people and other travellers who were at home
had saved themselves, their goods, and their relations [blood- and other relatives] upon their ships.


11 [132/28 p.181]
HWERTH THÉR EN BERN EBERN SÁ KVMATH THA SIBBA ET SÉMNE
ÀND BIDDATH AN FRYA THÀT HJU HJARA FÁMKES MÉI KVMA LÉTA
THAT BERN TO SÉENANDE.
Wordt er een kind geboren, dan komen de nabestaanden te zamen,
en bidden tot Frya, dat zij hare dienaressen mag laten komen,
om het kind te zegenen.
When a child is born, all the relatives come together
and pray to Frya to send her [maiden-] servants
to bless the child.

fragment of letter from H.L. Himmler d.d. 21 Dec. 1941

SWÉRD ~ sword

Dame of Spades from tarot deck "Visconti di Modrone" (ca.1445)

sword - english
sverd - norse
sverð - icelandic
sværd - danish
svärd - swedish
schwert - german
swurd - frisian
zwaard - dutch
swuird - scots
zwoard - westflemmish
swäid - saterfrisian
 
[manuscript page/line: 082/24, translations Ottema-Sandbach p.115]
THÁ.R WITHER VPA BÉN WÉRE
STEKER SIN SWÉRD TO IR BUK IN. SEZANDE.
NILST MIN KUL NAVT SÁ SKILST MIN SWÉRD HÁ. ~
AFTER IM KÉM EN SKIPER FONA DÉNEMARKA.
THISSE NAM SIN SWÉRD ÀND HIF THENE FIN THRVCH SINA HOLE.
Toen hij weder op de been was,
stak hij haar zijn zwaard in de buik, zeggende:
wilt gij mijne roede niet, zoo zult gij mijn zwaard hebben.
Achter hem kwam een zeeman van de Denemarken,
deze nam zijn zwaard en kloofde den Fin den kop.
When he got up,
he ran his sword through her [saying]:
If you will not have me, you shall have my sword.
A Danish soldier came behind him
[who took his sword] and clave his head in two.

[130/02, p.177]
NW HÉDON HJA THET STOLTA SWÉRD ANTJAN
nu hadden zij het stoute zwaard aangegord
girding on their stout swords

160/17, p.217]
THÉR ÉR RIUCHTFÉRDICHHÉD WELDE.
WELTH NV THÀT SWÉRD
waar vroeger rechtvaardigheid heerschte,
heerscht nu het zwaard
where previously justice reigned,
now it is the sword

[197/14, p.237]
VS REST THUS TO KJASÁNE
TWISK.ET BÉRA FON JUK JEF SWÉRD
er schiet ons dus over te kiezen
tusschen het dragen van een juk of een zwaard
It therefore remains for us to choose
whether we will carry a yoke or a sword

Le Serment des Horaces by Jacques-Louis David (1785)

[197/20, p.237]
MOTON HJA MITH SWÉRD ÀND SPÍRI SPÉLA
moeten zij met zwaard en speer spelen
they must learn to play with sword and spear

NORTH

north - english, scottish
norður - icelandic, faroese
nord - danish, norse, swedish, german
noord - dutch
noard - frisian

Varieties in the OLB

NORTHESKA - nordic (plur.) - fragment nr. 1
NORTHLIKA - northern - 3,5ab,11
NORTHLIKSTE - northernmost - 2
NORTH.ENDE - north end - 4,12
NORTHWARD - northwards - 6,8,13
UT.ET NORTHA - from the north - 7
NORTH.LÁND - Northland (Scandinavia) - 9
NORTH.LJUD - Norsemen - 10
NORTH BRITTANJA - North-Brittania - 14

 
OLB fragments with translations by Ottema and Sandbach

1 [p.054/ will add line nrs. later]
THÁ THA NORTHESKA BROTHAR RA SELVA BY.M FOGATH HÉDE
Toen de noordsche broeders zich bij elkander [hem] gevoegd hadden
When the northern brothers met together [had joined him]

2 [060]
INNER NORTHLIKSTE HERNE FON THA MIDDEL.SÉ
In de noordelijkste hoek van de Middellandsche zee
In the northernmost part [corner] of the Mediterranean

3 [067]
(...) LÉT HJU INET NORTHLIKA BERCH.LAND ÉNE BURCH BVWA
(...) liet zij in het noordelijke bergland een burgt bouwen
She built herself a citadel on the high land to the north

4 [106]
MIN BURCH LÉID AN.T NORTH.ENDE THÉRE LJUD.GÁRDA
Mijne burgt ligt aan ’t noordeinde van de Liudgaarde
My city lies near the north end of the Liudgaarde

5 [106]
TWISK THA NORTH.LIKA HUSA IS ALLÉNA FJELD. ~
THA THRJU NORTH.LIKA HUSA SEND FOL KÉREN ÀND ÔTHER BIHOF.
Tusschen de noordelijke huizen is alleen veld.
De drie noordelijke huizen zijn vol koorn en andere benoodigdheden.
Among the houses on the north side there are only fields.
The three houses on the north are full of corn and other necessaries

6 [115]
BY T.ANFANG THERE ARNE MÔNATH
NIGADE JRTHA NORTHWARD
Bij den aanvang van Arnemaand (oogstmaand)
neigde de aarde noordwaarts
At the beginning of the Arnemaand (harvest month)
the earth bowed towards the north

7 [116]
IN SELLA MÔNATH KÉM STORNE.WIND UT.ET NORTHA WÉI
In Sellemaand (sprokkelmaand) kwam stormwind uit het noorden weg
In Sellemaand (Sprokkelmaand, February) there were storms of wind from the north

8 [116]
MEN AL ET LÁND THET NORTHWARD LÉID HÉDE WÉRE VNDER SÉ
Maar al het land dat noordwaarts gelegen had, was onder de zee
but all the land to the north was sunk under the sea

9 [130]
THIT SKRIFT IS MY OWER NORTH.LÁND JEFTA SKÉNLAND JÉVEN
Dit geschrift is mij over Noordland of Schoonland gegeven
This Writing has been given to me about Northland

10 [131]
SONT KOMATH THA GODA NORTH.LJUD VÁKEN TO TEXLAND 
VMB THERE MODERIS RÉD
Sedert dien tijd komen de goede Noormannen dikwijls op Texland
om raad van de Moeder
Since that time the good Northmen come often to Texland 
for the advice of the mother

11 [143]
THA NORTH.LIKA LJUD.GÁRDNE SEND THRVCH THENE SALTA SÉ BIDELVEN
de noordelijke Liudgaarden zijn door de zoute zee bedolven
the north Liudgaarden are still concealed by the salt sea

12 [198]
AN.T NORTH.ENDE FON BRITANJA THÀT FVL MITH HÁGA BERGUN IS
Aan het noordeinde van Brittannia dat vol met hooge bergen is
In the north part of Britain [that is full of high mountains]

13 [200]
ALLE LANDA THÉR SÛDWARD WESTWÁRD ÀND NORTHWARD LIDSA
alle landen die zuidwaarts, westwaarts en noordwaarts liggen
all the countries lying to the south, the west, and the north

14 [200]
DÁNÁ SIND THUSANDA GOLA NÉI NORTH BRITTANJA BRIT
daarop zijn duizende Golen naar Noordbrittannia getogen
[after that thousands of Gauls were brought to] North Britain

Forum #45 (4 jan. - 2 apr. 2015)

see post 10 March

 4 January: see blog post: SWÍGA - to keep silent, to not speak
14 January: see blog post: SWIKA ~ to swing, sway, swift, etc.

Posted 19 January 2015 - 11:58 AM

Just a fun-fact:
Disney's Atlantis (2001) used the 'Fryan' letter "A":

Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:06 AM

Abramelin, on 23 January 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

FOT [...] still has nothing to do with [...] "fout" in Dutch.

How can you be so sure?


25 January: new video part 4b in four languages, see here
11 February: see blog post SWART, BRUN ~ black, swarthy, sordid, brown
19 February: see blog post STÉN ~ stone, brick, rock, gem

Posted 28 February 2015 - 04:54 PM

Abramelin, on 26 February 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:

FOT would be more correct (Volney's "Les Ruines"), but it still has nothing to do with "false", or "fout" in Dutch.
FOT is the name the Chinese and/or Tibetans used for Buddha.... or BODdhisatva. And even BODdhisatva doesn't mean "false"...

If you can proove that "Boddhisatva" means "false", you have a point, but you'll have a hard time trying.

"Boddhisatva" does not have to mean "false", for FO or FOT to mean "false" or "fout".

Can you prove FOT has nothing to do with Dutch "fout"?

Posted 28 February 2015 - 09:06 PM

Van Gorp, on 07 February 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:

[...] i still wonder how on earth Hidde could have related his years of living and writing with the timeline according Altland sank (1256 after Christ=3349 after Altland).
Following the note of Liko some 450 years earlier, that connection could not be derived.

Good point.
Two possible explanations:
- Liko did not know the Atland year numbering system, but his descendant Hidde did, later (through other sources).
or:
- Liko did not mention the Atland system, because in his time it was still so common that he did not feel he needed to, but Hidde later added it because it became less used.

Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:53 PM

The Puzzler, on 11 February 2015 - 06:06 AM, said:

This article is from 2010 but adds more weight to the idea that the North Sea area was indeed a vast community of sailors with trade and movements going on...

Nice proof of early trade indeed, but interesting how the archaeologists assume so much, for example:
- That the tin was brought to Britain instead of from.
- That the ship was rowed not sailed, although no remains of the ship were left.

Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:32 PM

Another OLB word explained:

[004/04] (Adela's speech)
IK WÉT WEL THÀT J THÉRMITHA ANDA BRVD SITTE

Ottema (1872):
Ik weet wel dat gij daarmede aan den grond zit (aground, stuck)

Sandbach (1876):
I know that you are in a difficulty about it

Wirth (1933):
Ich weiß wohl, daß ihr damit in der Verlegenheit seid (embarrassment, perplexity, quandary, awkwardness)

Jensma (2006; added in footnote that source was unknown and that he translated it based on context):
Ik weet wel dat u daarmee in de penarie zit (perplexity, abashment, embarrassment)

Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal (WNT):
bruid ook BRUIT, en in verbogen vorm BRUITE, znw. vr. (?); mv. bruiten. Een woord dat reeds in de middeleeuwen, in Brabant, voorkomt (...), en dat zeker wel verwant is met Brui en een of meer der ald. genoemde woorden. Denkelijk zijn de onderstaande bett. ontstaan uit eene meer algemeene: draf, vuile vloeistof, poespas, wellicht: water waarin iets gekookt, waarmede iets klaargemaakt is; (...)
1. Draf, spoeling, varkensvoeder. (liquid pigfood of leavings)
2. Vloeibare beer, menschendrek (liquid muck, human dung)
3. In de haringvisscherij (...) vuile pekel (in herring fishery: dirty brine)

So, a translation closer to the original meaning would be, as we say:

"... you are in (deep) shit with that" (situation)
Most likely related dutch words:
brui, verbruien (mess, mess up, waste)
prut, verprutsen (mudd, mess up, waste)

(prithvi in sanskrit is earth, soil - possibly related)

Fragments with the verb and words derived from it:

THRVCH WAN.KÉTHINGA WISTON HJA ALLE TO WISA ÀND TO VRBRUDA

HWA FON VS FOLK THÉR.ET ALSA ÀRG VRBRUD HÉDE

THÀT VRBRÛDE ÀND VRBASTERDE SLACHT

HJA NILDE NAVT BIGRIPPA THAT HJARA SÉDE VRBRÛDE KOSTE

THJU TÁLE THÉRA ÁST.SKÉN.LANDAR IS THRVCH THA WLA MAGJARA VRBRÛD

VRBRÛDING VSRA RÉNE TÁLE

VSA VRBRUDA BROTHARUM ÀND HJARA SALT.ÁTHUM

THA JUTTAR WÉRON SUNT LÔNG VRBRUD

MITH HULPE FON THA VRBRÛDA FÁMNA

THA HÉMNISSA FON HJARA VRBRUDA LÉRE

Also related the verb "brouwen": to make soup, beer or cook anything somehow liquid.

LOL official ('scientific') dutch etymologists have no clue.

They think the word "prut" is derived from the sound a porridge makes when it cooks or something falls into it... (I'm not kidding!).

Quote

Klanknabootsing van het geluid dat een weke massa of brij kan maken als die gist of kookt, als er iets in valt, enz.; de oorspr. betekenis is dus wrsch. ‘substantie die het geluid prut kan voortbrengen’.

http://www.etymologi.../trefwoord/prut

=> "so the original meaning is probably a substance that can produce the sound prut"

...?!

Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:35 AM

Abramelin, on 05 March 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

... as long as it isn't (modern) French

Why would modern (spoken) French not be similar to the old 'French' of the 6th C. BCE?
And if it was, the Fryas may well have known much of that language.
What FO/FOT meant to the Fryas (perhaps mockingly), may not have been the same as what it meant to the 'Buddhists' of that time.
Also, the concept of reappropriation (geuzennaam in dutch: people using a name proudly, that was originally mocking) or the other way around (a proud name used mockingly by others) is desceribed at least twice in the OLB: with Kàlta and with the Druids.

I don't need to prove that it was possibly like I said, because I don't claim it was certainly so, and you can't prove it was impossible.

Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:47 AM

Van Gorp, on 05 March 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

In short, makes the connection with the verb "broddelen" (used also in West and East Flanders) in the meaning of doing sloppy work or even to ruin.

I saw a link to "brothel" (dutch bordeel, french bordel) here, but according to etymology, that comes from borde: farmeres house, wooden cabin

Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:52 AM

Van Gorp, on 05 March 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

... that the meaning of FOT was known by the priests, but not by the common people afterwards who called the person FOT while paying tribute or feeling sympathy for him.

So that is what OLB says: the priests in Kashmir (later to China) talked a language where FO/FOT has the meaning "FALSE", but in time this meaning is lost in the contemporary languages there.
Why does it still has this meaning in French/Dutch/German/English?

Excellent VG, I totally agree.

Note: fou/ folle in French means mad, wild

OLB: TO, JO has in english become "to you" (same sound, in dutch "oe", german "u"), so FO may have sounded not like "faux", but more like "fou"?) ... Kung Fu?!

Posted 06 March 2015 - 11:27 AM

The website of Tresoar, the archive that guards the OLB, www.oeralindaboek.nl, finally has a new functionality for browsing through copies of the original pages: http://images.tresoar.nl/OLB/

The resolution is not very good.

Posted 06 March 2015 - 05:57 PM

flashman7870, on 06 March 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

Because French didn't exist prior to the middle ages. Prior to Roman and Frankish occupation they spoke Gaullish.

That's why I wrote 'French'.
There's no reason to assume that spoken 'Gaulish' is so much more different from modern French, than Oldfrisian differs from the Dutch-Frisian-Flemmish dialects.

Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:20 PM

Abramelin, on 06 March 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

It's too much of a coincidence that C. over de Linden had that book in his possession...

Not at all. He was interested in anything that could confirm what was in his manuscript. How do you know he had it before Ottema made his translation?

Quote

I also said that the creators of the OLB using FO instead of FOT was not a slip of the pen, but a hint.

How could you possibly know?

Quote

FO/FAUX does indeed mean 'false' in French, a language - like you already said - that didn't even exist around the time the OLB was supposedly  put onto paper.

The language did not exist under that name, but was not invented at the moment they started using that name.

8 March see blog post STEMLÉTH ~ stammer

Posted 10 March 2015 - 06:56 PM

[062/08]
563 JÉR NÉI ALD.LAND SVNKEN IS. SAT HIR EN WITE BURCH.FÁM.
MIN.ERVA WAS HIRA NÔMA. THRVCH THA STJÛRAR NY.HEL.LÉNJA TONÔMATH.
THIS TONÔMA WAS GOD KÉREN.
HWAND THA RÉD THÉR HJU LÉNADE WAS NY ÀND HEL BVPPA ALLE ÔTHERUM.
563 Years after Aldland sank, a wise/ white burchfám resided here.
Min-erva was her name, surnamed Ny-hel-lénja by the steersmen.
This name was well chosen,
because the rede she lended (lénade) was new (ny) and bright (hel), superior to all others.

Inspired by OLB?
Poster (1918) of the Dutch union for Woman Suffrage: "Let me in, I bring new light." (Image at top of this post)

Posted 11 March 2015 - 02:39 PM

On page 44 of the original manuscript, line 28-29, one and a half line is erased (made black) by the copyist. With some effort, one can read part of it: "... VPPA WAGAR FON THÉRE BURCH LJVD-...DA WRITTEN" (written on the walls of the burch Ljud-...).

The next page starts with an introduction of something that was written "INUT THA WÀGAR THÉRE WÁRABURCH, so it's not that the copyist started and then decided to wait for the next page. Did he leave out a part he didn't like or think important?

I'd say it looks like that.


13 March see blog post: "The Edge of the World", M. Pye ~ quotes

Posted 17 March 2015 - 03:59 PM

Passing Time, on 17 March 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

... and Frolle he sloh his fo
... here Fo = Foe , meaning enemy

Indeed, good find.
Yes whoever wrote the text about BUDA a.k.a. FO meant false, but that does not have to mean it only meant false.
Many words in OLB have several meanings.
The meanings false and foe are not that different.
So the name could have been interpreted by some as "false", by others as "foe".

I don't see why this is such a big deal. It's only important for Abramelin because it fits into his France-revolution theory.


25 March see blog post: FINDA WAS GÉL?

Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:30 PM

On page 72, copyist Hidde Oera Linda left four lines empty on top of the page.

The only possible explanation I can think of is that his original had an illustration there that he wanted to copy later, but in the end he never got to do it.

Posted 01 April 2015 - 09:15 AM

Passing Time, on 31 March 2015 - 11:46 PM, said:

proto germanic druhtinaz

"Proto germanic" is nor was a language, although many reason as if it were.
It is a reconstruction.

1 April see blog post BIDROGA ~ betray, deceive, cheat

Posted 01 April 2015 - 03:49 PM

The Puzzler, on 01 April 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

I don't think bidriv equates to bidriaga/bedrog

No, BIDRIV on itself is like Dutch noun "bedrijf" from verb "bedrijven" - to do, make, commit, perpetrate.

In combination with DROCHTEN, it is litterally something like the committing of idolatry.

Ottema and Sandbach interpreted this as "bedrog" and "deception" respectively.

Posted 02 April 2015 - 12:00 PM

Just some notes.

The common word for child (both singular and plural) in OLB is BÀRN or BERN. (See blog post.)

This word is still used in N-European languages:
barn (child, children) - norse, swedish, danish (plur. børn), icelandic (plur. börn)
bern (child, children) - frisian

But in one fragment the word KINDAR (children - German Kinder, Dutch kinderen) is used twice.

[126/29] Ljudgért
N.AST MIN KINDAR NAVT SJAN [...] THA.K SINA KINDAR WÉI.BROCH HÀV
Have you not seen my children? [...] because I have lost his children

In one fragment KINDLIK (kindly) is used:

[120/31] Ljudgért
AFTERNÉI KÉMER TO HIM. SÉR KINDLIK SNAKKANDE*
Later he came to him, speaking* very kindly

(* Note: snakke still means to talk in Norse. The word got lost in this meaning in Dutch and Frisian.)


2 April see blog post NG-letter ~ separate N-G ~ finger