02 October 2014

Forum #43 (12 march - 1 oct. 2014)


Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:53 PM

The Puzzler, on 10 March 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:
... hjara moders baerta-lând mit nôma ald-lând that nw vnder-ne sê lêith
... their mothers birth land, named aldland that is under the sea.
I have the feeling that "mit nôma" (Dutch: "met name") could also be read as the Dutch expression "dat wil zeggen" (something like: "that is"). What do you think about this, Van Gorp?
Reading it this way, the author may not have meant to name the land, but rather points out that this birth-land no longer exists, because it is the old (former) land, now under the sea.
The meaning would then be something like this:
... their mothers birth land, which was part of the lost world (old land) that is now under the sea.


 Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:53 PM
Also, since Finda is rather a mythological (archetypal), than a historical mother, it does not really make sense to treat the myth of where she came from as factual; some may have believed she came from the Himalayas, others from the Ganges, others from the old land that was lost.

East of Japan (Yonaguni?) and near the NW coast of India (Dwarka?), underwater cities were found.

I bet similar things may be discovered around the Faröe Islands.




Posted 13 March 2014 - 10:12 AM
In other words:
The mythological Finda represents the antediluvian ancestors of the 'yellow' people.
They probably did not descend from the Himalayas, nor did they come from Ganges-foam.
My guess is that they will have lived in coastal areas that were lost as a result of (suddenly) rising sea-levels, or a huge tsunami (or both).



Posted 22 March 2014 - 11:37 AM
Congratulations, Alewyn!
For now, I will only add some links:


Alewyn, on 13 March 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:
... I recently published a revised edition of  'Survivors of the Great Tsunami'; under the new title of 'Chronicles from pre-Celtic Europe'; on Amazon.com.
Posted Image
In addition to my other research, I also visited a number of archaeological sites and museums in the Netherlands, France and Germany last year.

Amongst the archaeological sites were
[burial mound] De Hamert, [some finds]
[burial mound] Oss,
['Keltic' archaeological park] Glauberg,
['Keltic' archaeological park] Hochdorf,
['Keltic' museum] Heuneberg and the
European Archaeological Park at Bliesbruck-Reinheim. [...]

Posted 02 April 2014 - 09:39 AM
As for Scythians, read Chronicles of Eri (I am at p.300 of 1000 and convinced it's not a forgery, although I don't take the content as all true gospel).
Their language was completely different (and artificial) as compared to that of the Fryans (and as described by them).
It looks like they were the "prestera fon Sidon" and Fonikians (?) of the OLB.
(No time now to check the exact references.)
But somewhere more back in time they will indeed have been related somehow.


Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:45 AM
NO-ID-EA, on 02 April 2014 - 11:52 PM, said:
... in chronicles of eri , can  ur be Ur(WR) as in Mesopotamian UR ...
Wasn't that fire? Dutch: VUUR (VVVR).
But fire in Fryan is FJUR which also means four (tetrahedron is symbol for element fire).
One resemblance between Fryans and Scythians was fire worship.
The Scythian word for fire may have been derived from the Fryan "Ur-alda").


Posted 14 May 2014 - 05:25 PM
Thank you Abramelin for trying to rivive this thread.
I don't have much to say to it myself for now, but will posts some finds from the Chronicles of Eri soon (Gaal/ Gael - GOLA; Priests of Sydon; children of Feine (FINDA?)/ Phoenicians --- I haven't finished those 1000 pages yet).
From your posts, this was most interesting to me:


Abramelin, on 13 May 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:
"(...) Eustathius, the Byzantine grammarian, quotes an ancient scholiast on Iliad, II, 841, to the effect that the Pelasgians were called Dioi ('divine') because they alone of all the Greeks preserved the use of letters after the Deluge (...)"

 Posted 21 May 2014 - 03:08 AM
Abramelin, on 28 February 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:
which flood does your blog refer to?
Interesting footnote in the Chronicles of Eri, book 2/2 (p.50): "It is observable that the figure generally presented for an hostile invasion is a flood, as you may have seen in divers passages in these Chronicles, and in the Dissertation. Which instances could be given five hundred fold, was it necessary."
Fragment to which the footnote referred (p.48):
"What if a messenger be sent to Daire, to drive back the waves that threaten the land?"


gestur (Othar Winis), on 06 March 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:
Links to downloadable PDFs of the two parts (both 500+ pages): part 1 part 2


Posted 30 May 2014 - 02:35 PM
Abramelin, on 30 May 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:
Freya and Finda returned to their watch stars, accept Lyda who had none to begin with.
It does not say in OLB that Frya and Lyda RE-turned to their stars and it does not say Lyda did not have one, Lyda's just is not mentioned.


Posted 01 June 2014 - 09:17 AM
Abramelin, on 31 May 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:
Well, my point was, 'where might this idea of us (or the 'earth mothers') having a watch star have come from?'.
Where did Plato have it from?
... she was already risen to her watching star; ...
So Frya had one, and she was busy ascending to it.
No. Imagine I move to Iceland next week, not having been there before, not owning a house yet. When I have arrived, bought a house and moved in, people can say I have already moved into my (new) house.


Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:00 AM: About DOBBA - "dopen", see here .


Posted 10 June 2014 - 12:58 PM
The Puzzler, on 10 June 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:
What do you mean 'new' etymology? Do you suggest 'baptise' comes from same etymology?
What is new (as far as I know) is the relation to the verb DOBBA (to dig, delve), though the noun DOBBE (tub, dibhole, puddle).


Posted 10 June 2014 - 01:02 PM
Official etymology often refers to "proto-germanic" (or PIE) as if this is/ was a real language.
In fact it is merely an academic reconstruction, partly based on assumptions that will be proven wrong as soon as OLB is accepted as authentic.


Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:02 PM
Otharus, on 28 June 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:
Ottema translated WRDA with "oorden", but I think "waarden" (wards) would have been more correct.
[...]
Varieties of LJUDWERD:
Ljuwert [hidde/16]; 1256 CE
Ljudwerd [liko/23]; 803 CE
Ljudwardja [113/25-26] ca. 300 BCE
Ljvdwérd [143/21] ca. 250 BCE
Ljvwrd [143/22] idem
Ljvwerde [206/11] ca. 50 BCE
Posted Image
Note the undepth south-west of Texel: "Lutjeswaard"

This may very well have been the old "Ljudwardja", before it was flooded and after which nowaday Leeuwarden (Ljouwert) may have been named.


Posted 12-13 and 15 June 2014: family trees OLB, see here
Through the marriages of Friso's 4 children (and his two brothers in law who are not mentioned in the chart), part of the Fryan territories were (re-) united.
Note the repeated name-roots:
WIL-fréthe, WIL-jow, WIL-him
wich-HIRTE, swét-HIRTE, sjucht-HIRTE


Posted 19 June 2014 - 07:06 AM
The Puzzler, on 18 June 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:
Lothario masc. proper name, Italian form of Old High German Hlothari, Hludher (whence German Luther, French Lothaire), literally "famous warrior," from Old High German lut (see loud) + heri "host, army"
(...) lut might be able to have been lum - since luminosity and lit/light/licht both mean similar, could be same... lutke = lumka.....?
(...) so his home-town became renowned as a warrior maker
Lumka could indeed have been Lutka, but then it would make more sense imo to relate Lut to LJUD = people:
LJU(D) or LJV(D) in OLB  
hljóð - icelandic
ljuda - swedish
lyd - norse, danish
lui, lieden - dutch
leute - german
=> Lumkamakja = made by (the) people?


Posted 28 June 2014 - 07:50 PM
The Puzzler, on 28 June 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:
which means that hlap and softly may actually be the same root (in a roundabout way)
HLAP is dutch loop (walk, run - pronounced as 'lope') from verb:
lopen - dutch (to walk - in Belgium: to run)
laufen - german (to walk)

hlaupa - icelandic (to run)
 

Note that the verb has remained most original in Icelandic.


Posted 29 June 2014 - 12:39 PM
The Puzzler, on 29 June 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:
Still don't get the point really, but the link provided me some new insights. Thanks for that.
hlapa - oldfrisian
hleapan - oldenglish
hlopan - oldsaxon
hlaufan - oldgerman

hlaupa - icelandic
løpe, laupe - norse
leypa - faroese
løbe - danish
löpa - swedish (means also: to be prepared for copulation)
lopen - dutch
laufen - german
leap, lope - english
ljeppe - frisian

Although the meanings vary between to walk, run, jump, it is clear how much these languages are related and have the same origin.


Posted 05 July 2014 - 05:32 PM: Silver (JOL-) Bowl found, see here


Posted 06 July 2014 - 07:27 AM
Van Gorp, on 06 July 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:
About Lumkamakia, I have now an idea totally different from what i was looking before.
Not as much for the meaning of Lum, Loom, Leem like meanings ... that all can stand but more in the figurative meaning, contrary to the possible toponyms.
I'm not convinced 100% percent anymore we should actually look for a place called Lumkamakia.
The sentence and context goes like this
"Wodin thene aldeste hêmde to Lumka-mâkja bi thêre Ê-mude to Ast-flyland by sin eldrum t-us. Ênes was er hêrman wêst"
So Wodin was leisuring from his 'army' or soldier activities at his parents home.
"To Lumka Makja" -> om een luimke te doen -> om te luieren -> om te ontspannen -> to relax
http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...id=M037959.re.5
(...) More to build a case for this:
Gent's dialect (Gent = Capital City of East Flanders):
afternoon nap/middagdutje: luimke
http://www.mijnwoord...ct/gents&page=3
And from the first link on the verb "luimen" it is stated that it is only used presently as bargoens and soldierlanguage !
If we see that Gent's dialect is using 'luim-ke' (diminuitive for luim) to describe reposing, we can imagine the link between East Flanders (Ast Flyland?) en Fries Dialect.
Excellent, Van Gorp, congratulations!
This indeed seems like the best interpretation to me. 


Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:03 PM
Van Gorp, on 06 July 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:
More to build a case for this:
Gent's dialect (Gent = Capital City of East Flanders):
afternoon nap/middagdutje: luimke
After having had a better look at the text, considering the word-order, I do after all think that Lumkamakja is a geographical (place) name, but the meaning could indeed be as you suggest; a place where people (sailors?) have a rest.
Or: the name means "to make a joke", "to make fun"

Lume, luumkin = scherts, grap, plezier
source: http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...&lemmodern=luim

OLB has some examples of geographical names derived from a historical (or mythical) event (Kaat's gat, Medea's blik).
The same could be the case here.


Posted 09 July 2014 - 02:49 PM: "upanishad ~ VPPA.NI(THER).SÁT" 


Posted 09 July 2014 - 04:54 PM
Remarkable.
Note the 6-spoke wheels.
Source: http://www.ancient.eu.com/article/238/

Religion of Indus valley civilization was a theme not found in any ancient accounts. Seals, images and other materials had been unearthed by various archaeologists. Scholars were unable to draw any inference about those people.
Well over 400 distinct Indus symbols (some say 600) had been found on seals, small tablets, or ceramic pots and over a dozen other materials, including a "signboard" that apparently once hung over the gate of the inner citadel of the Indus city of Dholavira. It was one of the largest and most prominent archaeological sites in India in the Kutch Desert Wildlife Sanctuary of Gujarat, India.

Posted Image
Banner at the North Gate of Dholavira


Posted 13 July 2014 - 08:53 AM
OLB also has the verb JOLA (yodel, bawl - modern dutch 'joelen').
But according to the schooled etymologists "joelen" is not related, but rather based on the sound it makes.

http://etymologieban...refwoord/joelen
Interestingly, it also says:

Het eerste lid van de samenstelling joelfeest ‘midwinterfeest, kerstmis’ [..] heeft een andere etymologie. Het is, wrsch. via Duits Jul(fest), ontleend aan Zweeds/Deens jul ‘kerstmis’, Oudnoords jól ‘midwinterfeest’, waarvan de etymologie omstreden is.
Translated:
The first part of "yulefeast" (midwinterfeast, christmas) [...] has a different etymology. It is probably based (via German "jul") on Oldnorse, Swedish/ Danish "jól", "jul", which has a controversial etymology.
I can no longer take schooled etymologists seriously. 


Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:29 PM
Van Gorp, on 13 July 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:
bar-bar just meaning quite elementary in behaviour (savage, uncultivated for some), without complexities for others.
Second part of support less, the word 'bar' has a general meaning in dutch, possible germanic root 'bar' (see bar, baar, barely, bare naked)
All meaning naked, open.
Interestingly, the (old) dutch verb "baren" can also mean to scream, or to rage, rave.
source: http://etymologieban...refwoord/baren2 


Posted 31 July 2014 - 08:04 AM
flashman7870 (Abramelin), on 31 July 2014 - 06:03 AM, said:
Nice 6-spoke wheel indeed.
Posted Image 

Posted 12-13 and 16 August 2014: "Vril-ya and Fraja in Aryan occultism"


Posted 14 August 2014 - 07:36 PM
Atlantisresearch (Oliver D. Smith), on 14 August 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:
Its confusing why the Nazis took an interest and defended the Oera Linda book hoax.
Some may have liked it (Wirth, Himmler) but the Nazi authorities publicly rejected it in 1934 and Wirth was silenced. Himmler financed secret investigations till 1942.

Arthur Hübner (1885-1937), a nazi-linguist, wrote in 1934 ("Herman Wirth und die Ura-Linda-chronik", p. 35):
"Die Ura Linda- Chronik ist nicht nur demokratisch, führerfeindlich, pazifistisch in ihrer Grundeinstellung, sie ist im ganzen ein Machwerk ohne Saft und Kraft..."
Translated:
"Not only is the OLB democratic, führer- [Hitler-] inimical, and pacifistic in its foundations, as a whole it is a worthless fabrication ["without juice and power"]."

Menno ter Braak (1902-1940), a dutch author and anti-Fascist, wrote in the same year ("Arthur Hübner contra Herman Wirth"):
"Dat men het Oera Linda Boek in een goede vertaling en met een paedagogisch commentaar in het programma van het M.O. opneme, ter voorlichting van de jeugd!"
Translated:
"The OLB should be added to the program of secondary education, in a good translation and with pedagogic comments, to educate the youth!" 


Posted 15 August 2014 - 11:08 AM
Atlantisresearch (Oliver D. Smith), on 14 August 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:
The fact the OLB describes the Finns as a "yellow race"...
It doesn't.
The mythical primal mother FINDA is described as yellow, but the Finns (FINNA), although described as having come from the east, derive their name from the word FIN:

[051/28]
THÀT FOLK NETH NAVT ÉNIS EN NOME.
THRVCH VS SEND HJA FINNA HÉTEN.
HWAND AFSKÉN HJARA FÉRSTA ALGADUR DROV ÀND BLODICH SEND.
THACH SEND HJA THÉR ALSA FIN VP
THAT WI THÉRBI ÀFTER STÁNE.

Sandbach, p. 73:
 
This people have not even a name;  
but we call them Finns,
because although all the [their] festivals are melancholy and bloody,
 
they are so formal [FIN]  
that we are inferior to them in that respect.


Posted 15 August 2014 - 12:24 PM
Atlantisresearch (Oliver D. Smith), on 14 August 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:
... just more evidence it is a 19th century hoax.
Quote:
Originally it was assumed that as the Finnish language was related to Sámi – spoken by tribes perceived as Mongolian in origin – and as many Finns supposedly looked ‘Eastern, ’that Finns were ‘Mongoloid’ and this view remained relatively unchallenged until the beginning of the twentieth century.
Have you actually read the study you quoted from?
The quote is followed by (my underlining):


Since that point, and particularly since the 1990s, it has been increasingly argued that Finns should be seen as ‘European’ but with a considerably more ‘eastern’ influence than many other Europeans.

That the original assumption was challenged, does not mean it was refuted.

Another significant quote from the introduction:

Quote
...  their language is related to Hungarian, a string of languages across northern Russia and, some believe, Mongolian and even Japanese (see Gleason 1969). They are not quite Eastern yet they are not quite Western (...)

And from conclusion:

Quote
Many scholars agree that the question of the Finnish race remains unanswered. I would argue that on structural level, drawing upon a modern myth, they should [be] categorised as ‘Battling to be White’ which may also be the case with a number of other peripheral European nations  in terms of racial scholarship.


Posted 17 August 2014 - 08:06 PM
Both in Greece and in India, important places (region, city) have names that are similar to OLB's TEXLAND (or current Dutch Texel, pronounced "Tessel"):
Greece: Thessaly

Northern India: Taxila
"By some accounts, Taxila was considered to be amongst the earliest universities in the world."
The official etymologies are questionable, imo.


Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:21 PM: "NÉF.TÜNIS ~ Neptune" 


Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:03 AM
Gingitsune, on 27 August 2014 - 04:31 AM, said:
But back to the 2nd and 3rd centuries, Tunis was a simple town, unrelated to far away Sousse and Chebba where the three mosaic you present where found.
Sousse and Chebba are not that far away (Sousse is between Tunis and Chebba, that are 250 km. apart). How can you say they are not (culturally) related?
So Tunisia is named after Tunis, which may have been unimportant in the time you refer to, but it had been destroyed by the Romans and was in fact much older:

"In the 2nd millennium BC a town, originally named Tunes, was founded by Berbers and also over time occupied by Numidians. In 146 BC, the Romans destroyed Tunis (along with Carthage)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunis

How did Tunes get its name?

It is not impossible that it is from Nef-/ Nep-Tunis, a naval hero named (kinsman) 'Tony', who was deified, as described in OLB.

Anyway, the argument (most often used) that OLB's etymology would be sheer nonsense, is invalid.


Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:30 PM
Gingitsune, on 27 August 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:
Culturally related or not, if Tunis was the origine of Neptune, you'd find Neptune temples much closer to Tunis proper.
Not if they were destroyed by Romans around 150 BCE.
And to be exact: I don't suggest Tunis was the origin of Neptune, but rather named after him. 


Posted 02 September 2014 - 07:53 AM
flashman7870 (Abramelin), on 29 August 2014 - 02:21 AM, said:
I'm reading through the old thread, and found an issue that appeared unresolved, at least by the 220s of pages. Apparently at one point Frisia was known as "The Land of the Alans", which seems odd since the Alans never even made it to the Netherlands.
Good to hear that the old threat is still of inspiration to you.
The Alans are not mentioned in the OLB.

How do you know they never made it to the NL?
They could have been here without there being a source about it.
We only have very few sources.
Or the source that claimed that Frisia was once "land of the Alans" could be wrong.
There is much pseudo-history around. 


Posted 17 September 2014 - 07:32 PM
Comments on a fragment from "De Gemaskerde God" (2004) by Goffe Jensma (PhD thesis about the Oera Linda Book).
 

Page 157, about the Over de Linden family that owned the manuscript:
"From 558 BCE till 1938 CE every head of the family would have inherited the manuscript from his predecessor and passed it on again to his descendant. Self-evidently, this is a more than questionable scenario."
 

Original Dutch text: "Vanaf 558 voor Christus tot 1938 na Christus zou ieder hoofd van de familie telkens het handschrift van zijn voorganger hebben gekregen en weer hebben overgedragen aan zijn navolger. Vanzelfsprekend is dit een meer dan betwijfelbare gang van zaken."
 

1. If there would have been one copy in one lineage only, it would indeed be remarkable (though not impossible) that this copy survived for so long.
But there will probably have been many copies around and in that case there was more chance that one of them survived and showed up. Who knows how many more there still are in private collections? (Considering what happened to Cornelis Over de Linden, I would be reluctant to bring it to 'specialists', if I had something similar in my possession.)

 

2. It is not necessarily so, that the known copy was saved in one family lineage from Adela 'Oera Linda' till Cornelis Over de Linden. Imagine that a random family had it in its possession in (for example) the 17th century, and that the owner was able to read (parts of) it. He may have adopted the name "Over de Linden", inspired by the manuscript.



Posted 19 September 2014 - 06:17 PM
Comment on another fragment (p.145):
 
"The creation process probably did not take place in a continuous period, but in stages. The last efforts were clearly the hardest, because as the text approached its completion, concentration slacked and hastily the last bits were made up, translated and written down. As the book progresses, its quality decreases in several ways (style, trimness, concentration, structure). [...] It seems obvious that this was partly caused by time pressure and haste."
 

Original Dutch text: "Het maakproces heeft waarschijnlijk niet in een aaneengesloten periode plaatsgevonden, maar in etappes. De laatste loodjes wogen duidelijk het zwaarst, want naarmate de tekst zijn voltooiing naderde, verslapte de concentratie en werd er met behoorlijke haast een en ander bedacht, vertaald en afgeschreven. Naarmate het vordert, neemt in allerlei opzichten (stijl, netheid, concentratie, structuur) de kwaliteit van het boek af. De oorspronkelijke bedoeling zou dus heel goed geweld kunnen zijn aangedaan. Het ligt voor de hand dat tijdsdruk en haast daarbij een rol hebben gespeeld."
 

According to Jensma, the OLB was created by Over de Linden, Haverschmidt and Verwijs.
 

If they had finished the manuscript in a hurry, then why did Verwijs delay its translation and publication by more than two years?
 

See letter fragments:

Othar Winis, on 06 January 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:
... fragments from letters by Verwijs (...):
1) 1867 june 28 - to J.F. Jansen
"This morning I copied a whole speech which is not all clear to me yet, but which, as far as I could judge from the copy, is most curious."

2) 1867 oct. 13 - to C. Over de Linden (OdL)
"As I said, I was overjoyed with the discovery and told many of my friends. Part of it was quite easy to understand and, although seeming to be of younger age, not different from the language of the Oldfrisian laws from the 13th and 14th century. But there were also fragments, that I didn't and still don't understand and that will take much meticulous study, before I can clarify them."

3) 1867 oct. 16 - to OdL
"I really can't promise you the translation of a separate part, as there are difficulties in it, that may take weeks of study."

4) 1867 oct. 19 - to OdL
"It certainly is a manuscript from one of your ancestors - which means your family is very old - , that was copied many times and by all means deserves to become known. [...] The importance of the manuscript will give the ancient name of the Oera Linda's a radiance, brighter than any of the oldest noble families."

5) 1868 nov. 21 - to OdL
"The case is of enough interest to me, to finally dive into it properly."

6) 1869 may 17 - to OdL
"Then I hope to take the whole with me in this summer holiday and start translating."

7) 1869 nov. 11 - to OdL
"I finally return the manuscript to you, but you will be sorry that the translation is still missing. [...] Here and there translation is very easy and it can be done at first sight; but other parts contain difficulties, that take much time and study. But I hope to be able to help you soon now."

8) 1869 nov. 11 - to J. Winkler
"Here and there translation is easy, but there are also quite some difficulties and unknown words. I know that if I would start, I would not rest before I have solved them, and that way I would spend much too much time on it. [...] The case is of much interest to me, so I don't want to fully withdraw from it. [...] Such an etymological quest is very much of my liking, [...] It's odd that it contains some very old words and that also the forms point at a previous linguistic era, while other expressions sound so very modern." [Verwijs could not (or hardly) imagine that some expressions were old, which does not prove that they could not in fact have neen old.]
This is just one of many examples of how Jensma's theory does not make sense. 


Posted 22 September 2014 - 08:11 AM
Van Gorp, on 21 September 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:
when exactly did Jesus = Fo = Buda = Krisen lived in Kashmir following OLB?
On 16 june 2011, I wrote:
Most historiographic stories in the OLB start with their dating:
p.1 "30 years after the Folkmother was killed..."
p.6 "it was 7 x 7 years after Fàsta was appointed..."
p.47 "before the bad times came..."
p.50 "101 years after Aldland had sank..."
p.62 "563 years after Aldland had sank..."
p.68 "10 years after Jon was brought away..."
p.72 "when Hellenja or Minerva had died..."
p.75 "in the year 1005 after Aldland sank this was written..."
p.79 "... 1602 years after Aldland perished"
p.119 "two years after Gosa became Mother..."
p.120 "after we had been 12 x 100 and 2 x 12 years at the Five Waters..."
p.130 "in the times that our land sank down"
And once at the end:
p.117 "that happened 1888 years after Atland had sank"
If the Jes-us story really happened "when Atland was submerged", the author could have easily started the story with "In the time that Atland was submerged...", but she starts with "1600 years ago...", and you [Puzzler] suggest that she did this to mention when she wrote the story down.
This does not make sense.

She aims at dating the time when Jes-us lived and the point of reference is "when Atland sank", not when she wrote it, because we (the readers from the future) don't know when she wrote it.

From the context it is clear (and all translators agree about this) that the phrase should be read as:

"It was 1600 years after Atland had sank, and at that time..." etcetera
... so my answer is ca. 600 BCE.


Posted 13 September 2014 - 09:11 AM
flashman7870 (Abramelin), on 13 September 2014 - 03:32 AM, said:
if the OLB was real (which I thinkit isn't) ...
What is/are the main reason(s) for your doubt?


Posted 22 September 2014 - 08:37 AM
flashman7870 (Abramelin), on 21 September 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:
Lack of any Iron- Bronze Age Burchts as described in the OLB
There will be many old sources about buildings or cities that no longer exist, or of which no traces have been found (yet).
The date of the Flood just so happening to co-incide with the date of the Flood given in Frisian Almanacs
Those Frisian Almanacs may have had the manuscript or a related document as their source.
Coincidences in OLB Geography and local Frisian, Dutch and Northern Germangeography
Peoples who move around often take their toponyms with them. Many examples in the US, South Africa and Australia. Most well known "New Amsterdam", later renamed "New York".
No other incidence of OLB script
There are more authentic ancient sources in a (thus far) unique script.
It's Nehalennia to Nyhalenia
Spelling variety in old sources is most common.
No big, massive disasters around 2194 BC- only parts of gradual changes, no volcanos or shifting of landmasses.
I am not a geologist, but Alewyn Raubenheimer is and he would strongly disagree with you. Have you read his book (3rd edition)?
No area that seems approapriate for 'Atland' to be in
Atland, according to the OLB means "old land". This can refer to any lost land. It is obvious that much land (coastal areas, islands) got lost as a result of natural disasters. OLB's Aldland does not have to refer to the same location as Plato's Atlantis.
Language (Bedrvm, lol)
Would you agree that the verb BEDA and the noun RVM might be 2000+ years old?
If so, why could a combination of these words not be that old.
If not, why not?

Lack of any flood found at the date cited in the beggining (Okke, Min Svn)
It is possible that this flood was not recorded or that Okke's father was refering to a metaphorical flood (invasion).
Some questions for you:

When do you suppose the manuscript was created and with what motive?

Why has (recent) years of paper research not resulted in a clear answer as to how old the paper is?


Posted 22 September 2014 - 11:37 AM
The Puzzler, on 22 September 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:
It does not say: "It was 1600 years after Atland
The best translation is not always the most literal one.
Your interpretation just does not make sense, because all over the OLB, the point of reference is the sinking of Aldland.
If the Jes-us story happened around that time, it would have been in 'year zero', when Aldland sank.

If the author had meant that it happened 1600 years ago (the year of writing the text being the point of reference), we would have to know in what year it was written.


Posted 22 September 2014 - 12:02 PM
Othar Winis, on 17 September 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:
Comments on a fragment from "De Gemaskerde God" (2004) by Goffe Jensma (PhD thesis about the Oera Linda Book).
Another fragment, p.121:
"How is it even possible, that the Oera Linda-book was never recognised as the religious allegory that I described in the previous chapters? A primal cause seems to be the complex procedure that is followed in the book. Very much is asked of the reader, perhaps too much. He must constantly keep dispelling illusions and it takes effort and perseverance to finally discover the modernist message behind the historical nonsense."
 

Original Dutch text: "Hoe kan het, dat het Oera Linda-boek eigenlijk nooit is gelezen als de religieuze allegorie die ik er in de vorige hoofdstuken in zag? Een eerste oorzaak lijkt het ingewikkelde procédé dat in het boek is gevolgd. Er wordt van de lezer zeer veel gevraagd, te veel misschien. Hij moet voortdurend illusies blijven doorprikken en het vergt inspanning en volharding om uiteindelijk achter de historische kolder de modernistische boodschap te ontwarren."
 

If it were not the symptom of a self-destructive, collective mental illness, it would almost be funny that Jensma does not see that it is rather the other way around:
That he (and his fellow pseudo-skeptics) must constantly keep creating illusions in order to avoid the conclusion that the manuscript might be authentic after all.

 

His alleged 'historical nonsense' is the result of his own very liberal and questionable interpretations, for example that GÉRT.PIRE.HIS TOGHATER would refer to the medieval daughter of Great Pier Donia and that JES.US (a.k.a. BUDA) refers to Jesus of Nazereth.


Posted 23 September 2014 - 10:19 AM
Van Gorp, on 22 September 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:
Like you said "Wiljo copied it ca 300 BC from the writings of Dela aka Hellenja"
But you think also "who is probably not the same as Adela".
"and probably not the same as Hellenia", the old writings of Hellenia Wiljow is referring to.
The confusion is caused by Ottema's erroneous transliteration and translation: "thet Hêlênja bok" => "het Hellenia boek".
 

The text reads:
p.[134/04] Wiljo
THÁ.K NÉI THA SAXANA MARKA FOR.
HÀV IK THRJU BOKA HRET.
THET BOK THÉRA SANGA.
THÉRA TELLINGA
ÀND THET HÉLÉNA BOK.
[...]
THA GOSA.MAKONTA FALLEN IS. [...]
BEN IK ALLÉNA NÉI TEX.LAND GVNGEN
VMBE THA SKRIFTA VR TO SKRIVANE
THÉR HJU ÀFTER LÉTEN HETH.
ÀND THÁ THA LERSTE WILLE FONDEN IS FON FRÁNA
ÀND THA NÉILÉTNE SKRIFTA FON DEL.A JEFTA HEL.LÉNJA
HÀV IK THÀT JETA RÉIS DÉN.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .

[1)] THIT SEND THA SKRIFTA HEL.LÉNJA.S.
["Jes.us" story, signed by "DEL.Á TONOMATH. HEL.LÉNJA"

[2) p.141] SÁ LUDA FRÁNA.S UTROSTE WILLE.
[Frana's testament]

[3) p.142] THET HETH GOSA NÉILÉTEN.
[Gosa's prophecy]

 

So Wiljo saved 3 books, that were not copied, nor added to the manuscript:
THET BOK THÉRA SANGA.
THÉRA TELLINGA
ÀND THET HÉLÉNA BOK.

 

And she copied 3 texts that were added to the manuscript:
THA SKRIFTA HEL.LÉNJA.S. (or: "DEL.Á TONOMATH. HEL.LÉNJA")
FRÁNA.S UTROSTE WILLE.
THET HETH GOSA NÉILÉTEN.

 

If Delá a.k.a. Hellénja would have been the same as Ádela, why would Wiljo not have simply written Ádela?

 

Posted 25 September 2014: new transliteration


Posted 1 October 2014, 08:58 AM
flashman7870 (Abramelin), on 29 September 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:
This conversation is incapable of moving on- and it's because there is so little to work with. There is only one example of OLB language and history, and that is the OLB itself.
Little too work with? There's much more than you can handle.
The problem is that most here only work with one or two translations.
Study the original text.
It is way too huge to just have been a joke or experiment.


Posted 1 October: Ћ = TH or HT

01 October 2014

Ћ = TH or HT

The OLB letter "Ћ" usually stands for "TH", but sometimes for "HT". Some examples (note: always following "C"):


[008/18]
SÉLV.SJOCHTA.FINDA.


[026/03]
HJARA SLACHTA


[032/17]
THA NÍGUNG TO RJUCHT

[044/24]
DAHWILE HJA AL SINA LÉKA UT FÁCHT HÉDE.


[052/22]
ACHTTANTICH JÉR

I also found one example (so far) of T and H being spelled separately:

[039/18]
THA WILDET FOLK AK FON SOKKA HÁ.

25 September 2014

transliteration

I am currently improving the transliteration that I used thus far (here, on the forum, in my videos and on ALDFRYAS).

Below an overview of the used letters, compared with the ones used by Ottema (& Sandbach; 1876) and Jensma (2006).

Notice the O with dot (bottom right), that does not appear on OLB's alphabet page and was ignored by Ottema (o) and Jensma (Ô). Ottema also did not differentiate the two Y's.

Instead of Ottema's "gs" and Jensma's "DZ", I simply use "Z" (to be pronounced as the German "Z"; dz or ds).



(Ottema used "th" and "ng" like I do.)

13 September 2014

BÉRA ~ to give birth, bear, make bare, happen / BÁRA ~ bears / BARNA ~ to burn


Ia. BÉRA - to bear, carry
beuren - dutch
bære - danish, norse
bära - swedish
bera - icelandic
Hettema Oldfrisian dictionary (1832): Bera, beurje - dragen, heffen
etymologiebank.nl/beuren
gtb.inl.nl/beren

Ib. BÉRA - to give birth
baren - dutch
gebären - german
born - english
barn (child, children) - norse, swedish, danish (plur. børn), icelandic (plur. börn)
bern (child, children) - frisian
Richthofen Oldfrisian dictionary (1840): Bera - gebären
etymologiebank.nl/baren1
gtb.inl.nl/baren

Ic. BÉRA - to happen, occur (dutch: gebeuren)
Hettema Oldfrisian dictionary (1832): Bera, beurje - gebeuren, toekomen
etymologiebank.nl/gebeuren
gtb.inl.nl/gebeuren

Id. BÉRA, BÁRA - to reveal, disclose (dutch: openbaren, swedish: uppenbara), also: to declare, feign, complain
Hettema Oldfrisian dictionary (1832):
- Bara, baria, baarje - aanklagen, openbaren, klagen, weenen
- Bera, baeerje - klagen
- Bera, beerje - beeren; zich houden, alsof men ergens van weet, of niet weet
gtb.inl.nl/baren
gtb.inl.nl/baar



Ia. (* fragment nrs.)

BÉRA - to bear, carry * 2,4
TO BÉRANE - ,, * 5
VP BÉRAD - upheaved, lifted * 3
BÉRANDE HÁVA - portable, bearable goods (haves) * 1
TILBÉRE HAVA - ,, (compare KENBÉR, SKINBÉR etc. below) * 6
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1 [074/01]
DRÍWANDE ÀND BÉRANDE HÁVA

2 [123/26]
THÉRNÉI SKIL JAHWEDER SÁ FÜL GOLD KRÉJA AS.ER BÉRA MÉI

3 [105/13]
THET HÁGE WÉTER HETH.ET VP BÉRAD

4 [197/14]
TO KJASÁNE TWISK.ET BÉRA FON JUK JEF SWÉRD

5 [197/23]
HELMET ÀND SKILD TO BÉRANE

6 [120/23]
WI SKÉPTVS MITH AL VSA TILBÉRE HAVA IN



Ib.

BERN - child(-ren), born
* 17x in expressions "FRYAS BERN", "WIF ÀND BERN"
* 4,29,31-35,37-51,53-57,58-60,64-68,70-71,73-78,80
BÀRN - ,,
* 3x in expressions "FRYAS BÀRN", "WIF ÀND BÀRN"
* 1-3,5-6,10-22,24-28,30,36
BERNLÁS - childless * 72
BERNUM - children * 63
EBERN - born (dutch: geboren) * 57,60
BERTA - birth (dutch: geboorte) * 61
BÀRTA.LÁND - birthland * 23

BÉRA - to give birth to (dutch: baren) * 73
BÉRTH - gives birth to (dutch: baart) * 73
BÉRDE - (she) gave birth to (dutch: baarde) * 74
BÉRADE - ,, * 52
BÀRDE - ,, * 7,8
BÀRDON - (they) ,, * 9
BÉRED - (have) given birth to (dutch: gebaard) * 74
BÀRAD - ,, * 62
BÁRED - ,, * 79

FRUCHTBÀR - fertile ('fruitbearing'; dutch: vruchtbaar) * 69
BERLIK - female (childbearing) * 44a

FRYA.S-, FRYAS-, FRÍAS-, FRIAS BERN: [032/18,20] [074/09] [098/04] [103/05] [125/03] [149/28] [152/12] [156/03] [157/05] [203/09] [208/23]
FRYA.S BÀRN: [004/25] [006/11]

WIF/WIV ÀND BERN: [067/01] [074/13] [117/31] [123/02] [128/04,17] [140/09]
WIF ÀND BÀRN: [029/04]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1 [00a/12]
SAHWERSA THV SE ERVE. MOT THU SE ÁK WRSKRÍVA. THIN BÀRN ALSA

2 [002/15]
THÉRA FINNUM HJARA WIVA KRÉJON BÀRN.
THISSA WAXTON VPPA MITH VSA FRYA BÀRN


3 [002/22]
AS THA BÀRN GRÁT WRDON
ÀND SAGON THÀT THA FINNA RA BÀRN NÉN WÉPNE HANTÉRA MACHTE


4 [003/05]
BERN WRDON TO SOK MAKAD

5 [004/01]
VMBE SINA BÀRN TO WAGANDE AMONG EN FOLK THÀT ÉLLE ÀND AL VRDÉREN IS

6 [004/28]
BÀRN MOT MÀN LÉRA. HO GRAT VS LÁND ÉR WÉSEN SÍ

7 [006/15]
JRTHA BÀRDE ALLE GÀRSA KRUDON ÀND BOMA

8 [006/19]
AFTER.ET TWILIFTE JOL.FÉRSTE BÀRDE HJU THRJA MANGÉRTA

9 [006/30]
NW BÀRDON EK TWILIF SVNA ÀND TWILIF TOGETHERA

10 [007/22]
VMBE THA BÀRN RA KWÁD. ~ VNWISA BÀRN

11 [008/27]
SACH HJU HJRA BÀRN EN FRYA.S VRMORDE

12 [009/01]
SKIN.HÉLIGA BÀRN

13 [009/13]
THA HAVEDA THÉR MÀNNISKA MÀJADON THIN BÀRN LIK GÀRS.HÀLMA OF

14 [010/02]
THÀT FORMA HWAT HJU HIRA BÀRN LÉRDE WAS SELV.TWANG

15 [010/14]
ALSA THA STÀRA OM JRTHA OM.SWÍRMJA SWIRMDON HIARA BÀRN OM HJA

16 [010/17]
THA HJU HIRA BÀRN VPBROCHT HÉDE

17 [011/04]
HÉRIGA.BÀRN

18 [012/23]
SÉDZ THAT TO JVWA BÀRN

19 [012/29]
ANDA BÀRN.TAM ÉNER SLÁFINE

20 [014/22]
AL HJRA BÀRN

21 [017/29]
BY ALLE SÉKUM MOT THA MODER WALDA ÀND NJVDA
THÀT HJRA BÀRN. THÀT IS FRYAS FOLK.
SÁ MÉT.RIK BILÍWA AS THÀT WÉSA MÉI


22 [019/10]
ALLE FRYA BÀRN SEND A É.LIKA WÍSA BÀRN

23 [021/16]
HJARA MODER.S BÀRTA.LÁND

24 [029/16]
HI IS BÀRN ANDA LINDA.WRDA

25 [038/23]
THA BÀRN TO LÉRANDE

26 [040/20]
BÀRN TO TÉJANDE

27 [044/04]
TILTHJU NÉN BÀRN SIN NÁM NE KRÉJE

28 [046/05]
THAT THA BÀRN THA SKRIFTUN HJARAR ALDRUM AMPER LÉSA EN MUGA

29 [053/12]
UT THESSE TOCHTE IS THJU SKÉDNESE FON WODIN BERN

30 [054/06]
AS OF ET BÀRN WÉRON

31 [061/25]
THJANSTERUM THÉR THA BERN FON WR.ÁLDA STOLON

32 [065/21]
BERN TO.T.ALDER.GÁ

33 [067/18]
THV BIST FRY.BERN

34 [070/23]
HJARA BERN TO SKÁKANA

35 [071/06]
JVW BERN RÁWA

36 [076/15]
BÀRN TO THÉRE NÉJE HAVE FON ATHÉNJA

37 [077/30]
BÁSTERA BERN

38 [080/21]
THAT BERN WILDE ÉTA FON SINA MÀM

39 [081/12]
RUNADON MITH THA BERN EWÉI

40 [084/24]
FORTH SKILUN AL THINRA BERN MITH FRÉTHO LÉVA

41 [088/09]
ÉVIN MILD FÁR AL HJARA BERN

42 [096/20]
ADELA IS THET ENGE BERN VSAR GRÉVET.MAN

43 [096/26]
THRJU BERN WÉRON VP JENSKE GRÀF.STÉN SPRONGEN

44 [097/02]
THA BERN SEND HRED. JÉRLIKES KÉMON THA BERN HÍR BLOMMA LEDSA

44a [099/19]
THA MÀNNISKA SEND MÀNNALIK ÀND BERLIK. MEN WRALDA SKEPTH BÉDE.

45 [101/16]
TILTHJU VSA BERN NW WÉPNED MÜGE WÉSA

46 [101/24]
THRVCH UT WR.ALDA.S LÉVA WÀRTH TID ÀND ALLE THINGA BERN.
ÀND SIN LÉVA NIMTH TID ÀND ALLE THINGA WÉI


47 [102/19]
THI KNÁP IS GRÁTER ÀND OWERS AS THÁ.R BERN WÉRE

48 [104/05]
THÁ FRYA BERN WAS

49 [105/01]
ALSA BITHJUDE HIU HIRA BERN

50 [113/07]
HWAD KÀNST THIN BERN TELLA WRA FÉRA LANDA ÀND WRA FÉR.HÉMANDA FOLKA

51 [114/29]
THÉR WÉRON BERN THÉR VPSTANDON AJEN HJARA ELDRUM

52 [115/13]
THÉRE HÉLGE SÉTA HWÉRUT HJU FRYA BÉRADE

53 [121/08]
WY SEND FRY BERN FRYA.S BERN

54 [127/03]
THÀT HI SINA BERN TO HIM NOMEN HÉDE

55 [127/07]
EN BRÉVE NÉI SINUM BERN

56 [127/25]
THA BERN DÉDE LIK.RA BIFÁLEN WARTH


57 [132/28] Jônjar, Ionians
HWERTH THÉR EN BERN EBERN SÁ KVMATH THA SIBBA ET SÉMNE
ÀND BIDDATH AN FRYA THÀT HJU HJARA FÁMKES MÉI KVMA LÉTA
THÀT BERN TO SÉENANDE.
HÀVON HJA BÉDEN. SA NE MÉI NIMMAN HIM RORA NI HÉRA LÉTA.
KVMT ET BERN TO GRÁJANDE. ÀND HALT THIT EN STVNDE AN
ALSA IS THÀT EN KWÁD TÉKEN ÀND MAN IS AN FORMODA
THÀT THJU MÀM HORDOM DÉN HETH.
THÉRVR HÀV IK AL ÀRGE THINGA SJAN. ~
KVMT ET BERN TO SLÉPANDE SÁ IS THÀT EN TÉKEN
THÀT THA FÁMKES VRET KVMEN SEND.
LAKT ET INNA SLÉP SÁ HÀVON THA FÁMKES THÀT BERN LUK TO SÉIT.
OLON LÁWATH HJA AN BOSA GÁSTA. HEXNA. KOLLA. ULDERMANKES. ÀND ELFUN
AS JEF HJA FON THA FINNA WEI KÉMEN.


58 [133/30]
HI HETH MI FIF BERN LÉTEN 2 SVNA ÀND THRJU TOGHATERA

59 [135/09]
TO BÁTA AL HJARA BERN

60 [136/14]
THÉR WERTH EN BERN EBERN

61 [138/31]
NÉI.T LÁND SINRA BERTA

62 [142/08]
JRTHA HETH HJA NAVT NE BÀRAD

63 [142/12]
THÀT JRTHA.T BLOD ALGÁDVR NAVT DRINKA NE KÀN. FON HJRA VRSLÉJANA BERNUM

64 [148/24]
FON HJARA STORESTE TOGHTERA VMB THÉR BÍ BERN TO TÉJANDE

65 [158/11]
THÁ WR.ALDA BERN JEF ANTHA MODERA FON THÀT MÀNNISKELIK SLACHTE

66 [159/24]
MEN HWAT IS THÉR UT BERN

67 [161/14]
SVME FON LYDAS BERN ÀND FON FINDAS BERN

68 [163/32]
THET SE VNFORBASTERE BERN FINDA.S SIND.
SE GELÁVAH THET FINDA FONUT.ET HIMMEL.LÀJA BERTA BERN IS.
HVANÁ SE MITH HJARA BERN [...] THET SE MITH HJRA BERN ...


69 [165/18]
THET LÔND [...] IS [...] FRUCHTBÀR AN ALLE DÉLUM

70 [167/11]
HWER IK BERN BEN

71 [167/30]
LIK BERN HÁVEDA SA GRÁT

72 [168/22]
BERNLÁS STURVEN
;


73 [189/15]
T.IS WÉR THÀT JRTHA WARTH BIHWÍLA ÁK AL.FÉDSTRE HÉTEN.
THRVCHDAM HJU ALLE FRÜCHD ÀND NOCHTA BÉRTH
HWERMITHA MÀNNISK ÀND DJAR HJARA SELVA FÉDE.
THACH NE SKOLDE HJU NÉNE FRÜCHD NER NOCHT NAVT NE BÉRA
BÍDAM WRALDA HJA NÉNE KREFTA NE JEF.
ÁK WIVA THER HJARA BERN MÀMA LÉTA AN HJARA BROSTA ;

WERTHAT FÉDSTRA HÉTEN.
THA NE JÉF WR.ALDA THÉR NÉN MELOK IN
SA NE SKOLDON THA BERN THÉR NÉNE BÁTE BY FINDA.


74 [191/24]
VMBE THÀT HJA BERN BÉRED HÀVE LÉTATH HJA HJARA SELVA MODAR HÉTA.
THA HJA VRJETTATH THÀT FRYA BERN BÉRDE SVNDER JENGONG ÉNIS MAN.


75 [196/18]
THAT HJARA BERN NW NÉN LÉSA NACH SKRÍVA NAVT NE LÉRADE

76 [203/14]
HJARA BERN MISBRUKA ÀND FYTRA LÉTA

77 [203/22]
THA MÀMMA KLIMDON HJARA BERN ÀJEN HJARA BROSTA AN

78 [204/26]
FÁMNA THÉR THA BERN LÉRA ÀND THA ALDA RÉD JEVA

79 [207/06]
THAT NETH NÉNE GODE FRÜCHDA BÁRED

80 [210/28]
FORTH GVNGON HJA TO ÀND SKÁKTON JONGA BERN THAM HJA BY RA HILDON
ÀND VPBROCHTEN IN THA HÉMNISSA FON HJARA VRBRUDA LÉRE




Ic.

BÉRA - to happen, occur (dutch: gebeuren) * 3,17
BÉRTH - (it) happens (dutch: gebeurt) * 4-7,16
BÉRDE - happened (dutch: gebeurde) * 2,8-9,15
BÉRADE - ,, * 13,18
BÉRED - (had) happened (dutch: gebeurd) * 12
BÉRD - ,, * 11

BÉRTNISA - events, happenings (dutch: gebeurtenissen) * 1
BÉRTNISSA - ,, * 10
BÉRTNESA - ,, * 14

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1 [001/22]
THAT IK ALLE BÉRTNISA NÉIGVNGEN HÀW

2 [001/24]
IK HÀV AL.AN FON ÀND WITHERFÁREN TO SJANDE HWÀT.ER BÉRDE

3 [013/11]
SÁHWERSA THÀT MACHTE BÉRA

4 [030/21]
BÉRTH.ET NAVT TO MIN

5 [030/30]
ÀND BÉRTH.ET THÀT

6 [042/08]
THA BÉRTH ET WITHER

7 [042/29]
MEN BÉRTHET JETA RÉIS

8 [066/08]
THÁ HWAT BÉRDE


9 [073/06]
THACH HWAT BÉRDE

10 [087/13]
THA BÉRTNISSA THÉR AFTERNÉI SKÉD SEND

11 [097/13]
THACH MÀN TELLADE HOT BÉRD WAS

12 [113/29]
VNDER MINA TIDA IS FÜL BÉRED

13 [136/09]
TO THÉRA TIDUM BÉRADE THÉR AWAT

14 [143/04]
HWÉR IN THA BÉRTNESA VPSKRÉVEN WRDE

15 [151/20]
JEF.T NV BÉRDE THÀT...

16 [159/07]
THA HWAT IS BÉRTH

17 [192/29]
MEN THÀT SKIL ÉRIST BÉRA AS THRÉ-THUSAND JÉR VR.HLÁPEN SEND. ÀFTER THISSE ÉW

18 [210/16]
THAWILA THÀT.ET ALLES BÉRADE


Id.

BÁR - bare, clear * 1,14-15,18,25
BÁR MAKJA - to ; make bare, reveal * 14
BÁR MÁKADE - (she) made bare, revealed * 18
KLÁR ÀND BÁR MÁKAD WRDE - to be made clear and bare * 15
AVBÉR MÁKTH WERTHA - to be made publicly known * 27
KÀNBÉR TO MAKJANA - to make known * 2
KÀNBÉR MÁKAD - made known * 3

variable meanings: to reveal, report, disclose, declare, feign, complain

BÁRJA - to complain * 5,32
BARA - to report * 8
BÁRA - complaining* 26
BÁRE - ,, * 12
AVBÉRA - declaring * 22
TO BÁRANDE - complaining * 16
TO BÁRANE - ,, * 30
TO BÁRANA - ,, * 31
BÁRDE - (he) revealed * 10
BÉRADER - ,, * 19
BÁRADON - (they) ,, (or declared, feigned) * 11,23-24,29
BÁRADE - (she) complained * 17

KÀNBÉR - knowable, known ('knowbare') * 2,3
SKINBÉR - seemingly ('shinebare') * 4
AVBÉR - public ('openbare') * 6-7,20-21,27-28
VNLÉSBÉR - unreadable * 9
BLIKBÉR - apparently * 13

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1 [001/26]
THÉR THRVCH SEND MY FÉLO SÉKA BÁR WRDEN

2 [021/02]
HJAM KÀNBÉR TO MAKJANA

3 [030/12]
KÀNBÉR MÁKAD THRVCH THA FÁMNA

4 [038/17]
SKINBÉR VNDERE HODA FON FÀSTA

5 [039/20]
THA FORSTA ÀND PRESTERA KÉMON BÁRJA

6 [041/27]
IS HWA WRAK THÀN MOTER AVBÉR SÉDZA

7 [042/16]
SA MOTER AVBÉR AN IM DÉN WERTHA

8 [043/15]
SA MOT MÀN T ANDA GRÉVA BARA

9 [046/02]
THÀT HJARA SKRIFT VNLÉSBÉR SKOL WÉSA

10 [059/15]
TÜNIS THÉR FÀRSJANDE WÉRE BÁRDE THAT ER ...

11 [072/08]
THA BÁRADON THA PRESTERA AS JEF HJA MITH VS WÉRON

12 [079/03]
WILDON HJA THÉRVR BÁRE SÁ WARTH THER HROPEN HARK. HARK

13 [088/20]
BLIKBÉR TRVCH ALLE STÁTHA

14 [101/09]
SVME THAM HJARA RENKA FRODA ÀNDET BÁR MAKJA

15 [101/27]
THISSA SÉKA MOTON KLÁR ÀND BÁR MÁKAD WRDA BY ALLE WISA

16 [103/28]
EN VN.SELS GÍRICH MÀN KÉM TO BÁRANDE BY TRÁST

17 [104/28]
HJU NE BÁRADE NAVT OVER WRALDA

18 [114/32]
THET ALDE FÁMK THÊR ELLA BÁR MÁKADE

19 [122/24]
NW BÉRADER ASWEN DER LÁVADE THET VNLUK ET DÉN HÉDE

20 [126/10]
HI LÉT THIU TOGHATER AVBÉR SKÁKJA

21 [136/31]
HJA NE THVRADON HIM NAVT AVBÉR BIKÀNÁ

22 [138/30]
GVNGON THA FALXA PRESTERA [...] SIN DÁD AVBÉRA

23 [139/01]
HJA BÁRADON GRÁTE ROWA

24 [139/32]
ALSA BÁRADON HJA ÀRMODE

25 [150/09]
SÁ FÜL IS MI BÁR WRDEN

26 [154/14]
HJA HÀVON MITH HJARA BÁRA THACH ALSA FÜL UTRJUCHT

27 [158/08]
AVBÉR MÁKTH WERTHA

28 [159/26]
T SÉD [...] THÀT AVBÉR SÉJED IS

29 [162/24]
SELIGA THÉR EKKORUM FRJUNDSKIP BÁRADON

30 [196/17]
THA RIKA KÉMON TO BÁRANE

31 [196/23]
THA RIKA SIND TO MY KVMEN TO BÁRANA


32 [205/26]
RÉINTJA [...] GVNG NÍDICH NÉI PRONT.LIK THJU MODER ET TEXLAND BÁRJA ;


meaning not clear:
[155/23]
BERTH.HOLDA (man's name)

possibly related:

1) BÁRA - bears
bearen - frisian
beren - dutch
Bären - german
bjørne - danish
bjørner - norse
björnar - swedish
birnir - icelandic
;
[109/20]
THÉR SEND WOLVA BÁRA ÀND SWÁRTE GRISLIKA LÁWA
;
[112/11]
HO FÉLO BÁRA ÀND WOLVA HUDA HÀST AL VPPA THÉRE MÀRK BROCHT

2) BARNA - to burn
branden - dutch
brennen - german
brænde - danish
bränna, brinna - swedish
brenne - norse
brenna - icelandic

BARNA - to burn * 3
VRBARNA - ,, * 18
TO VRBARNANDE - ,, (burning) * 1
BARNANDE - burning * 6c
BARNTH - (he) burns * 2
BRONDE - (I) burned * 10
BÀRNADON - (they) burned * 4
VRBARNAD - (are) burnt * 9
VRBARNATH - (have) ,, * 19
(note: VR- could be translated as 'over')

BROND - fire * 6b,8,12-15,17,20

PILA MITH TÁRBARNTIN BOLLUM * 6a
BARN PILLA * 7
BARN.PILA * 11,16



1 [012/30]
VMBE SIN LIK ÀND THAT SINERA MÀM
VPP.ÉNE KÀLE STÉD TO VRBARNANDE

;
2 [026/23]
THAT HI [...] HUSA BARNTH
;
3 [043/30]
HIM SKOLDE MÀN MOTA BARNA
;
4 [050/02]
WALDA BÀRNADON THÉR.THRVCH ÀFTER EKKORUM
;
5 [065/01]
IK SKOLDE THJU HEX IN HJARA NEST VRBARNE
;
6 [085/32]
VSA STJURAR [...] SKÁTON HJARA PILA MITH TÁRBARNTIN BOLLUM
VP SINRA FLÁTE.
[...] THAT FÉLO SINRA SKÉPUN BISTONDA ANNA BRÔND WÉRON. [...]
AS ER TO LESTA EN SKIP AL BARNANDE NÉI.T SKIP THES MÁGÍ DRYF


7 [086/31]
VSA STJURAR [...] SKATON HJARA BARN PILLA VPPA THA FINNA DEL
;
8 [096/25]
THÉR WÉRE ÉNIS EN FÉN.BRÔND
;
9 [101/10]
ALSA WRDON HJA THRVCH HJARA RAKKERA FÀT
ÀND VMBIRA LASTER VRBARNAD

;
10 [114/10]
IK BRÔNDE FON NYS.GÍR
;
11 [119/06]
THES NACHTES SKÁTON HJA BARN.PILA ANDA LOFT
;
12 [122/12]
AS HJA HÉRADON THÀT HJA MITH MOSTE
STATON HJA THA TIMBER HLOTHA ANE BRÔND

;
13 [123/06]
THA NYA SKÉPA THÉR THA BRÔND VNTKVMA WÉRON
;
14 [127/32]
FRISO [...] SKÁT THET THORP MITH.A KÉNINGLIKA FÁR.RÉD.SKURUM ANDA BRÔND
;
15 [128/10]
ÀND SKÁT VNWARLINGA THA BRÔND INNA SKÉPA
;
16 [128/32]
FRISO [...] LÉT THA BARN.PILA RING INNA KRÁN.BOGA LIDSA
;
17 [129/14]
THRVCHDAM VSA PILA MITH WIND MÉI GVNGON
BILÉVON HJA ALLE AN BRÔND

;
18 [164/10]
THA PRESTERA [...] LÉTON THI LJUDA VP SPÉRA ÀND VRBARNA
;
19 [167/15]
VSA ÉTHLA HAVON ALLE KRÍL.WALDA VRBARNATH
;
20 [200/32]
FAITHE ÀND TWIST [...] MITH MORTH ÀND BRÔND
'burnstone' (amber) - english
barnsteen - dutch, eastfrisian (plattdüütsch)
barnstien - frisian
baarnstian - northfrisian
bernstein - german
bärnsten - swedish
borostyán - hungarian
bursztyn - polish

BARN.STÉN - 1
BÀRNSTÉNUM - 2a
BÀRNSTÉNE - 2b
BÀRNSTÉN - 3

"De Naam Barnsteen kümmt vun dat middelnedderdüütsche Woort „börnen“, wat „brennen“ heten deit." (the name Barnsteen is derived from the middlenetherdutch word 'börnen', which means 'to burn') ;
nds.wikipedia/Barnsteen

1 [048/23]
UTHAVEDE HJA TOMET NAVT OWERS NE DÉDON AS BARN.STÉN JUTA

2 [059/13]
ÁK WÉRON HJA SÉR NY. NÉI VSA BÀRNSTÉNUM [...]
MEN TÜNIS [...] BÁRDE THAT ER NÉN [...] BÀRNSTÉNE MÁR HÉDE


3 [065/23]
100 ÀND 27 SKÉPUM [...] RIK TO LÉDEN MITH BÀRNSTÉN

26 August 2014

NÉF.TÜNIS ~ Neptune

The oldest and most beautiful Neptune mosaics are found in Tunisia:

In archaeological museum of Sousse:
"Triumph of Neptune", mid-third century

"Triumph of Neptune and Aphrodite", 2nd century

"Triumph of Neptune", late 2nd century

The Oera Linda Book is often ridiculed, because it suggests that the name Neptune is derived from NÉF.TÜNIS, "neef" being dutch/ frisian for cousin or nephew. See for example this fragment of 'Saved from the Flood ~ Oera Linda studies', at 51:09 min.

The following list shows that this word is not at all specifically Frisian, but must in fact be very old. Besides, the original meaning seems to have been more general: kinsman (or perhaps even also -woman).

nefi (kinsman) - icelandic
nevø - danish, norse
nevö - swedish
neef (cousin, nephew) - dutch
Neffe (son of brother or sister) - german
nephew - english
nepuotis - lithuanian
nõbu - estonian
nei - welsh
nip - albanian
nipote (niece, nephew, grandchild) - italian
nebot - catalan

nepos (grandson, descendant) - latin
anepsios (son of uncle or aunt) - old greek
nepodes (descendant) - old greek
nápat (grandson, descendant) - sanskrit
napat - old persian

nefa (grandson) - old english
nia - old irish
neve, neue (male kinsman) - low german, old dutch
neveu (nephew, grandson) - old french

nift (niece, granddaughter) - old english/ german
nift, nicht (niece, cousin, young girl) - frisian

neben (near, next, neighboring) - german
neven, neffen - dutch

http://www.etymonline.com/nephew
http://gtb.inl.nl/neef
http://etymologiebank.nl/neven
http://etymologiebank.nl/neef
"in alle talen konden er verschillende mannelijke bloedverwanten mee worden aangeduid" (in all languages a variety of male kinsmen could be denoted by it)


Relevant OLB-fragments:


[053/15] (Ottema, Sandbach p.75) 
ANDA ALDER.GÁ.MVDE
THÉR RESTE EN ALDE SÉ.KÀNING.
STERIK WAS SIN NÔME
AND THA HROP VR SINA DÉDA WAS GRÁT.
THISSE ALDE ROB HÉDE THRÉ NÉVA.
WODIN THENE ALDESTE HÉMDE TO LUMKA.MÁKIA
BY THÉRE É.MVDE TO ÁST.FLÍ.LAND
BY SIN ELDRUM T.ÛS.
ÉNES WAS.ER HÉRMAN WÉST.
TÜNIS ÀND INKA WÉRON SÉKÀMPAR
ÀND JUST NW BI HJARA FÀDERJA
ANDA ALDER.GÁ.MVDE T.US.
AS THA JONGA KÀMPAR NW BI EKKORUM KÉMON
KÉRON HJA WODIN TO HJARA HÉR.MAN JEFTA KÀNING UT.
ÀND THA SÉ.KÀMPAR KÉRON TÜNIS TO.RA SÉ.KÀNING
ÀND INKA TO HJARA SKELTA BI.THÉR NACHT.

 
[056/21] (O., S. p.79)
NW KVMATH THA SKÉDNESE FON NÉF-TÜNIS
ÀND SIN NÉF INKA ÉROST RJUCHT VPPET PAT.

(read whole text till p.60, line 11)


Important fragment: 


[058/27] (O., S. p.83)
SVME WILDET FRYA.S.BURCH HÉTA.
ÔRA NÉF.TÜNJA.
MEN THA MÁGJARA ÀND THA FINNA BÁDON
HÀT SKOLDE THÍR.HIS.BURCH HÉTE.
THÍR ALSA HÉTON HJA ÉN HJARAR DROCHTENA
ÀND VPPA THAM.IS JÉRDÉI WÉRON HJA THÉR LAND.
TO WITHER.JELD WILDON HJA TÜNIS ÉVG
AS HJARA KÀNING BIKÀNNA
.
TÜNIS LÉT IM BILÉSA
ÀND THA ÔRA NILDON THÉRVR NÉN ORLOCH NE HÁ.



[069/01] (O., S. p.97)
THI KÀNING WAS FON TÜNIS OFSTAMED.
SÁ WI LÉTER HÉRDON.
MEN TILTHJU THA PRESTERA EN KÀNING WILDE HÀVE
THÉR ALDERLANGNE NÉI HJARA BIGRIP WÉRE
ALSA HÉDE HJA TÜNIS TO EN GODE VPHÉJAD.
TO ÀRGNISSE SINRA FOLGAR.


In the history of WODIN, INKA and TÜNIS, the word is NÉF, plural NÉVA, but later in the text, NÉVA is used as singular:


[209/28]
AL.RIK WÉRE ÁSKAR HIS NÉVA.
Al-rik was Áskar's kinsman.

~ ~ ~


Summary of facts concerning the Neptune - NÉF.TÜNIS issue:
1. The most impressive depictions (i.c. mosaics) of Neptune were found in what is now Tunisia, less than 300 km. from the coastal city Tunis.
2. Tunis is thought to have been founded in the 2nd millennium BCE and the etymology is not clear.
3. The root-word nef/ nep (and varieties) exists in many languages, originally meaning kinsman, later mostly cousin, nephew or grandson.
4. Tunis, Teunis, Tony, Tonio is a man's name that could be over 3000 years old.
5. OLB describes a naval hero who was known as NÉF.TÜNIS, who sailed to the Mediterranean and who was later deified.
6. This OLB etymology was used as an example of ridiculous/ impossible etymology; as proof that OLB must be a joke or hoax.

 

My conclusions:
- The city Tunis could in fact have been named after a deified naval hero 'néf-Tünis'.
- The story and etymology as described in OLB is not impossible and no valid reason to reject its authenticity.
- Even if the explanation suggested in Oera Linda is not the actual/accurate etymology of 'Neptune', OL can still be an authentic copy of pre-Carolingian texts.

13 August 2014

Vril-ya and Fraja in Aryan occultism


In late 19th/ early 20th century German occultism, the terms Vril-ya and Fraja played an important role. The similarities with the OLB name Frya (as well as some of OLB's themes) are remarkable.

Quotes from "Walpurgis Night - Volume One 1919-1933" by Thomas Sheridan, (2014):

pp 105-107 (parts made bold and added hyperlinks by me):
In 1871, a novel by a Rosicrucian named Edward Bulwer-Lytton entitled, [...] the Coming Race, is perhaps the first work of science fiction designed to generate a sense of expectation within readers, in that the storyline itself would eventually come to pass. [...] Influential occult figures such as Helena Blavatski and Rudolf Steiner, along with other Theosophists, claimed that the book's narrative of a master race living inside a hollow earth who possess the power of an energy form which they called Vril was rooted in fact.

In the story, a young adventurer discovers a subterranean civilisation of angelic Aryan-looking beings called the Vril-ya. The Vril-ya, who were once human, went to live inside the earth before the Great Flood as described in the Bible. [...]

[...] the one aspect of Edward Bulwer-Lytton's novel which really captured the imagination of occultists of the time such as the Order of the Templars and Thule Society in Germany, was the energy force of the Vril-ya; the "all-permeating fluid" of Vril, which the Ariosophists took to mean Aryan blood. A force, if kept pure and free from being contaminated by other inferior blood races, could unleash incredible psychic and energetic forces according to the training of one's will. [...] The suggestion is made in the novel that the Vril-ya will eventually return to the surface of the earth if a pure racial Aryan blood group evolves on the surface of the planet, taking with them their awesome magical powers and sharing these powers with the surface Aryan master race. The idea so excited members of the Thule Society that they formed a group in Berlin called Wahrheitsgesellschaft, or The Society for Truth, which was charged with discovering the power of Vril and using it to create wonder weapons.
pp. 110-111:
Within the pages of Ostara, there were articles that contained what Lanz von Leibenfels termed 'Fraja-Christus' or the new Aryan Jesus of the coming order. This obviously influenced the young Hitler enormously, especially the articles entitled Sexual-Physics as Odylic Energy.
p.130:
A few weeks after the death of Guido von List, members of the Thule Society conducted a seance inside the Four Seasons Hotel [Munich], involving a Russian female peasant who - if reports are to be believed - manifested the spiritual forms of the murdered Prince von Thurn und Taxis and Countess von Westarp. To the terrified and amazed attendees, the ghosts of the murdered Thule Society aristocrats announced the imminent arrival of the German Messiah who had been longed for all these dark years. The dialect in which the spirits allegedly spoke was the 'Low German' (Plattdeutsch), derived from the ancient Old Saxon tongue. However, the apparitions also came with a dire warning that this Messiah would be a false prophet who would lead Germany into destruction.
p.148:
It was almost as if Hitler had been brought out of his shell just by being in contact with the Thule Society, and by summer 1919, was being 'tested' to see if he had what the Thule Society needed from him: the potential to be the 'Fraja-Christus': the Aryan Jesus of the resurrected Germany.

One can easily find information about Vril on the web and the book can be read online, but it is hard to find soures about the 'Fraja' redeemer. I guess that not only the WW2 victors, but also the National-Socialists themselves have tried to keep this information hidden (most of Germany was and is still of the Christian religion).