03 April 2017

Frisia and the OLB on Mysterium Fasces Radio

Fellow OLB-students Karel Anker and Báleygr on internet radio "Mysterium Fasces". Below are some comments, notes and questions. (Last 20 minutes are on other topics.) Replies by Karel were added in blue.

19:50 I will not criticize much of Sandbach's translation, but in the Creation Myth (FORMA SKÉDNISE), I think there still is a significant mistake. Firstly, good thing that "hate" was replaced by "life force". A second mistake by Ottema, copied by almost all later translators, is to connect WR.ALDA.S to DRÁMA and not to OD. Notice position of the dot/ period in the original:

page 6, line 29-30: [...] ANDA DRÁMA [period] WR.ALDA.S OD [...]

Therefore: "... pleasure and delight [or: fruits and nuts] in their visions dreams. Wralda's Od (life force) ..."

27:20 A note on the Oldest Doctrine (FORM.LÉRE): It is remarkable that this was not copied initially as Adela had advised: "I should farther recommend that you should visit all the citadels, and write down all the laws of Frya's Tex, as well as all the histories, and all that is written on the walls, in order that it may not be destroyed with the citadels." Adela's advice was followed and Apol, Adela's husband, was responsible for having the texts at Liudgarda copied. Their daughter Apollania writes about her burgh in Ljudgarda: "On the south wall the Tex is inscribed. On the right side of this are the formulae [FORM.LÉRE], and on the other side the laws;" However, these were not copied into the original Book of Adela Followers, as she writes: "The old legend [FORM.LÉRE] which is written on the outside wall of the city tower is not written in 'The Book of Adela's Followers'. Why this has been neglected I do not know; but this book is my own, so I will put it in out of regard to my relations." It looks like Adela's husband Apol did not think much of this seemingly sacred text, or was it left out for some other reason?

31:45 Erratic interpretations of Wralda. Are these posted/ discussed somewhere else online?

Yes, there is some tiny, but vocal, American cult. They pretend to have 'maidens', call Wr.alda "Walda", claim that Wr.alda is not even divine but creation itself, and base their exegesis on only the Sandbach translation, in the same manner evangelicals stick to the KJB. I do not wish to give them any exposure at all, as their mere existence is bad enough.

Now that I know who was meant, I agree to not give them exposure here.

38:15 "Libya" is nowhere used in the OLB, only LYDA and LYDA.S LAND.

My mistake, I forgot to expand on that quip and explain myself. Herodotus writes that the continents are named after three women, and the continent which we now call Africa, used to be called Libya/ Lydia.
Tangentially, mind that Herodotus also states that the Europa myth was an ex post facto invented myth by the Phoenicians to aggrandise themselves and use to propagandise their claims on European lands. This is very cohencidental.

Herdotus book IV, chapter 45 (translation A.D. Godley, 1920):
[1] But it is plain that none have obtained knowledge of Europe's eastern or northern regions, so as to be able say if it is bounded by seas; its length is known to be enough to stretch along both Asia and Libya.
[2] I cannot guess for what reason the earth, which is one, has three names, all women's, and why the boundary lines set for it are the Egyptian Nile river and the Colchian Phasis river (though some say that the Maeetian Tanaïs river and the Cimmerian Ferries are boundaries); and I cannot learn the names of those who divided the world, or where they got the names which they used.
[3] For Libya is said by most Greeks to be named after a native woman of that name, and Asia after the wife of Prometheus; yet the Lydians claim a share in the latter name, saying that Asia was not named after Prometheus' wife Asia, but after Asies, the son of Cotys, who was the son of Manes, and that from him the Asiad clan at Sardis also takes its name.
[4] But as for Europe, no men have any knowledge whether it is bounded by seas or not, or where it got its name, nor is it clear who gave the name, unless we say that the land took its name from the Tyrian Europa, having been (it would seem) before then nameless like the rest.
[5] But it is plain that this woman was of Asiatic birth, and never came to this land which the Greeks now call Europe, but only from Phoenicia to Crete and from Crete to Lycia. Thus much I have said of these matters, and let it suffice; we will use the names established by custom.

39:00 "Finda was yellow". I guess there was a slight misunderstanding of my post about GÉL (yellow), which is not clear, I admit. "Geel" could have meant light-brown, which is what her skin-colour would have been. It is not likely that GÉL refers to her hair colour: "Finda was [GÉL], and her hair was..."

The central point brought up here is that it is not clear or definitive either way.


40:45 "Are the Franks white?" OLB says on page 157 (Sandbach p. 211-213) that the Franks were Twisklanders with various hair colours (red, brown and white) and brown faces. The ones with red and brown hair bleached their hair, which made them even more ugly than they already were. Twisklanders are said to have been banned and expelled Fryas, who had taken Tartar (thus: Finda-blood) wives. So, according to the author, the Franks were a mixed, bastardised people.

What I find the most interesting here is that they also call themselves 'Frya'. I think the passage you are quoting betrays a particular prejudice, since it is a report from the author's brother who was himself attacked by them. It could just as well be a fabrication or exaggeration to contrast one the “us” from the “them”.
Later in the book Maiden Reintja has a very different perspective on the Twisklanders. They even have maidens themselves. So, they may be unpure, they are not that far 'lost'.

That's right. Good point.

42:30 "Are the Finns the descendants of Finda?" According to OLB, the word "Finn" is not related to the name/ verb Finda but to the adjective FIN (translated by Sandbach as formal): THRVCH VS SEND HJA FINNA HÉTEN. (but we call them Finns,) HWAND AFSKÉN HJARA FÉRSTA ALGADUR DROV ÀND BLODICH SEND. (because although all the festivals are melancholy and bloody,) THACH SEND HJA THÉR ALSA FIN VP THAT WI THÉR BI ÀFTER STÁNE (they are so formal that we are inferior to them in that respect.)
Cognates: fine, fijn, fein etc. This adjective is also used to describe Fraya's hair: HJRA HÉRON THÉR SA FIN WÉRON AS RACH (her hair, which were as fine as spiders’ webs); and in FINNESTE WÉRUM (finest goods).
The chapter in which the Finns are introduced speaks of a slave-folk (SLÁVONA FOLKA), coming from the east (KÉM THÉR UT.ET ÁSTA EN FOLK WÉI). They were said to not be wild like many of the Finda tribes, but similar to the Egyptians (THAT FOLK NAS NAVT NE WILD LIK FÉLO SLACHTA FINDA.S MEN É.LIK ANDA ÉGIPTA.LANDAR).
In the chapter about the alfabet, it is suggested that the Finns are descendants of Finda: "In her time Finda also invented a mode of writing ... her descendants have soon lost the meaning of it. Afterwards they learned our writing - that is, the Finns, the Thyriers, and the Krekalanders".
It is also suggested in the part about Tunis and Inka: ÀND WONDER. (and what a surprise!) BY INKA THÉR EN GRYNS HÉDE VMBE THA KÀNINGAR FON FINDA.S. FOLK TO THJANJA (With Inka, who hated to serve the kings of Finda's folk,) HLIPON THA MÁSTA FINNA ÀND MÁGJAR OVIR (most Finns and Magyars sided.)
So although the Finns are suggested to be of Finda's blood, their name does not seem to be related.
As for present day Finns, I think many of them are of more purely white blood than many Dutch, specially the Swedish speaking Finns. Don't forget that already the first Magí had his daughter marry Wodin, and Adela also mentions the mixing of Finns with Fryan blood. Also, in the time of the Roman invasion, many freedom-loving whites may have decided to move more to the north-east.

55:35 "Rather dead than slave." Nice fragment to illustrate this is when Friso makes his children take poison, after they have been kidnapped by the Greek pervert Demetrius (Sandbach p. 173).

59:28 "Jesus Christ described in OLB"? If Jesus of Nazareth is meant, this is an interpretation that I do not share. The dating of the events described in this fragment (Sandbach p. 185, OLB p. 136) is ca. 600 BCE (1600 after Atland sank). "JES.US" a.k.a. BÛDA, KRIS.EN, FÒ; Since Buddha lived around this time, these names have rather been aliases of him ("Fot" is a known one). There are theories about Jesus of Nazareth having studied with Buddhists. He may have gotten his name there. He will not have been the first with this name. I have not looked into this myself, but it is noteworthy that Sanskrit scholar and professor Dr. Christian Lindtner, who possesses a PhD in Buddhist Studies states on the introduction of his website:
Recent (...) discoveries of old Sanskrit manuscripts in Central Asia and Kashmir provide decisive proof that the four Greek Gospels have been translated directly from the Sanskrit. A careful comparison, word by word, sentence by sentence, shows that the Christian Gospels are Pirate-copies of the Buddhist Gospels (combined, of course, with words from the OT).

I do not accept such chronological datings at face value. Especially those dating from before the "11th" Century. But this is too large a subject to go into just here. It is, in my eyes, also not that important if they actually are the same or not. I now know enough about it, to understand that I don't know what actually happened or when to come to a conclusion on the subject. But considering the podcast is centred around Traditional Christianity, confusing Jessos Krishna and Jesus Christ might make more listeners interested in the OLB.
The bit of Dr. Lindtner is very interesting and revealing.


1:05:45 Relationship NÉF and "navy"? This is an interesting theory, but not directly suggested in the OLB. See blogpost fryskednis/neftunis-neptune for cognates and older versions/ meanings of nephew.

As you may have noticed by now, I don't always draw from the OLB but also from other sources or just my own inspirations. Nef/-p generally means a (close) common descendence between individuals. Being part of a particular family or dynasty. This is mirrored by the meaning of “king” which is a contraction of “kin” + ”-(l)ing” = 'member/descendant of THE family/dynasty'.

The use of these terms for the holders of highest autonomous authority for men is very puzzling since this contradicts the specific anti-dynastic laws that have been laid out in the manuscript. In combination with the fact that these governmental laws have only been established some time after hostile contact with Findasfolk. It could very well be the case that previously the Frisians were a lot less democratic. The Franks come to mind here. They considered themselves Frisians (Frya) still. Being situated more closely to Findasvolk and coming in conflict more quickly, thus needing an extensively more militarised society and thus a stern 'Father' figure next to a mild Mother.

Maybe even the Twisklandic 'mixing' with Tartars is meant figuratively to paint them as the wild warriors they had to be, because they bordered the Tartars who are always looking for a fight and thus had to constantly fight with them to defend themselves. The 'OLB Frisians', being protected by the Twisklandic buffer states had the luxury to only resort to this when deploying the military at sea, with a monarch who had to relinquish power as soon as he returned to safe homelands. So perhaps, from their safe havens did not understand the disposition of the Twisklanders. Once the foreign empires are at the doorstep of the core Frisian lands, we see the 'patriarchal' development also happen. But it was not enough at that point, sadly. In modern times this development can be recognised in Prussianism and their need to be militarised by bordering huge hostile empires, with the condescending and hostile perspective the comfortably safe British had of Prussia being a 'total warmonger barbarian' as a result.
Too bad we only have one perspective delivered to us. So this likely stays a wild speculation from my part.

To come back from my tangent. Navy (and the Latin 'navis') being a loanword for ship, comes from the fact that proper shipbuilding originally comes from the North Sea peoples, specifically Norwegians (see 3 links below). Only around the North Sea can the complete evolution of shipbuilding be actually found. We introduced and shared our vessels the other peoples later, and thus started shipbuilding from an advanced initial there.
Considering what we call the 'ship' in churches in our languages, non-Germanics call a 'nave'. I don't think concluding that navy comes from Nef is that wild of a conclusion. (link 1, link 2, link 3)

1:16:30 "To be married at 25" ~ noteworthy is that this law appears to have no longer been applied at some point, as KONE.RÉD never married and died without children, according to his nephew BÉDEN (Sandbach p. 227). Or was he WRAK (rule nr. 5)?

1:20:40 Etruskans are not explicitly mentioned in the OLB. Which people were interpreted as such?

That's extrapolating from the OLB saying that Italy has been settled by all the races.

1:21:00 Trojans are Ionic Greeks? ~ Troy is mentioned twice in OLB, and it is suggested that at least part of the Trojans were of Finda-blood:
adornments ... from Troy, a city conquered by the Kreaklanders
2. (New, provisional translation:)
The Near Creeklands [± Italy] used to belong only to us only,
but since times immemorial,
descendants of Lyda and Finda have also settled there.
Of the latter, many ended up coming from Troy, eventually.
Troy was the name of a city
that was conquered and destroyed by the folk of the Far Creeklands [± Greece].
After the Trojans had nestled in the Near Creeklands,
with rigour and vigour they built a bastion
of walls and towers, named Rome - meaning roomy or renown.

This also falls under the historical revisionism that takes too long to properly explain now, so I owe you an extensive insight into threading this together another time.

If we assume the OLB is written roughly in chronological order. These references are after Findasfolk captured The City from the original Trojans, and thus not indicative of the real Trojans. In the same manner that modern Egyptians are not related to those of old. The OLB mentions Ulysses being a Jonic Greek king from Troy just after its capture during the Trojan War. Ulysses is with Aeneas the founder of Rome, attested by Hellanicus, Damastus and Aristotle. Also note that the 'Phyrgians', of the famous Phrygian [Frisian] cap that symbolises freedom, were close allies of the Trojans and fought on their behalf.
(added by Karel:) A compilation of Phrygian=Frisian Caps

1:27:25 "usurers (...) are hard-hearted" (Sandbach) ~ The (provisional) new, more literal translation:
Those who come to the market are strictly forbidden to commit usury 
(...) for such folk have vulture-like* hearts.
(*Dutch/ German: gier/ Geier = vulture/ greed)

"Vom Geier zum Meier", postcard 1900

1:48:00 Tinlands/ Brittania (as named in OLB), where banned Frya-folk were sent. This may actually have been only a small part (south-west: Devon, Cornwall) of what is now Great Britain (wiki/Tin mining in Britain, wiki/Tin sources and trade in ancient times).

I am aware that the rich tin deposits are located in only those regions. But it's fun to have an OLB explanation of Perfidious Albion.

1:57:05 Chronology Wodin, Tunis, Inka: The arrival of Tunis' fleet at the Phoenician coast according OLB (p.58, Sandbach p.83) was 193 after Atland sank, or 2000 BCE.

1:57:25 Symbolic numbers. The most significant number in the OLB seems to have been 12. See blogpost.

2:01:00 Similarity of our numbers with Arabic/ Sanskrit ones; It is rather the Sanskrit number-names that are more similar to ours, than their shapes. See relevant part in video.

2:13:30 That the Fryas accepted some sort of spiritual realm, is illustrated for example by (1) Frya dictating Festa from her watch-star and watching over her 'children', (2) similarly Frya's seven Maidens (WÁK.FÁMKES). Another example is (3) when Friso orders his children to take poison rather than be abused, for if their "souls are not pure", their "spirits will haunt the earth".

2:24:15 Thanks for the mention.

~ ~ ~

... And thanks for the replies, Karel.

~ ~ ~

Links to other OLB-interviews (with me, Jan Ott) incl. notes:
Red Ice (March 2016)
Aesir Broadcasting (September 2016)

No comments:

Post a Comment