08 April 2015

FINDA WAS GÉL?

(posted on forum 25 to 27 March)


A mistranslation by Ottema, copied by Sandbach.

[031/15-032/01] Minno
FÉLO SLACHTA FINDA.S SEND SNOD ENOCH.
MEN HJA SEND GÍRICH. HÁCH.FÁRANDE.
FALSK. VNKUS ÀND MORT.SJOCHTICH.


Ottema p.47:
Velen gelijken op Finda, * zijn schrander genoeg, 
maar zij zijn hebzuchtig, hovaardig, 
valsch, onkuisch en moordzuchtig.

Sandbach p.47:
Many are like Finda. They ** are clever enough, 
but they are too rapacious, haughty, 
false, immoral, and bloodthirsty.

* should be: Vele geslachten (stammen) van Finda...
** should be: Many of Finda's tribes ...

Jensma (2006):
Vele geslachten van Finda zijn slim genoeg,
maar ze zijn gierig, hoogvarend,
vals, onkuis en moordzuchtig.

###

Why Finda's people were not (only) our 'yellow' (Asian) race, but more likely (also) southeast-Mediterranean

The word GÉL (yellow) is used twice in the OLB (see below).

Variety in some modern and old languages:

geel - dutch
gelb - german
giallo - italian
giel - frisian
gult - icelandic
gul - danish, swedish, norwegian
yellow - english

gelo - oldsaxon, oldgerman
geolu, geolo - oldenglish
g(h)elu(w) - olddutch
gulr - oldnorse
helvus - latin

OLB fragments

[007/30] and Sandbach p.15
FINDA. WAS GÉL ÀND HJR HÉR SÁ THA MÀNNA ÉNER HORS.
Finda was yellow, and her hair was like the mane of a horse.

[167/25] and Sandbach p.227
VNDER ALLERLÉJA KÉREN IS.ER ÁK GOLDEN MANK.
ÀK GOLD.GÉLE APLE
HWÉR FON WELKE SÁ SWÉT ALS HÛNING SIND
ÀND WELKE SA WRANG ALS ÉK.

Among the various kinds of corn some is as yellow as gold.
There are also golden[-yellow] apples,
of which some are as sweet as honey
and others as sour as vinegar.


According to the 'Middledutch' Dictionary (Middelnederlandsch Woordenboek) that is about the period c.1250-c.1550, the original meaning was more like our 'blond':
"Yellow, the known colour, but the actual meaning is more that of our blond. 'Gelu haer' is in Middledutch the common word for what we call blond hair; the combination 'gelu blont' was also used."
(Original Dutch text: "Geel, de bekende kleur; doch de eig. bet. is meer nog die van ons blond. Gelu haer is het in 't mnl. gewone woord voor hetgeen wij blond haar noemen; ook vindt men gelu blont bijeengevoegd.")

Dr. Ottema wrote in his introduction to the OLB (1871), translated by Sandbach (1876):
"Irtha bore three daughters — Lyda, Finda, and Frya — the mothers of the three distinct races, black, yellow, and white — Africa, Asia, and Europe."

It is indeed tempting to assume that because Finda is described as "GÉL", Finda's people must be interpreted as what we call the "yellow" (Asian, i.e. Chinese, Japanese, Mongolian etc.) race.

There are however good reasons to reconsider this idea.
It is more likely that - at least in some of the fragments - Egyptians (or similar people from that area) were meant.

The strongest argument is the fragment below, but there is much more to say about this, which I will do later.

[057/13] Tünis & Inka
TÜNIS WILDE THRVCH THJU STRÉTE FON THA MIDDEL.SÉ VMBE TO FÁRANE
FÁR THA RIKA KANING FON ÉGIPTA LANDUM. LIK HI WEL ÉR DÉN HÉDE.
MEN INKA SÉIDE THAT.I SIN NOCHT HÉDE FON AL.ET FINDA.S.FOLK.


Sandbach p.81:
Teunis wished to sail through the straits to the Mediterranean Sea, 
and enter the service of the rich Egyptian king, as he had done before, 
but Inka said he had had enough of all those Finda's people.

###


View PostJan Ott, on 25 March 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:
... the rich Egyptian king [...] all those Finda's people.

Another fragment in which 'Finda's tribes' and the Egyptians are mentioned:

[051/17] about the invasion of eastern Scandinavia ('Skénland') by 'a people from the east' (Finns and Magyars) in ca. 2100 BCE
THAT FOLK NAS NAVT NE WILD LIK FÉLO SLACHTA FINDA.S
MEN É.LIK ANDA ÉGIPTA.LANDAR. HJA HÀVATH PRESTERA LIK THAM.
ÀND NW HJA KÀRKA HÀVE. ÁK BYLDON.

Sandbach p.73
They were not wild people, like most of Finda's race;
but, like the Egyptians, they have priests
and also statues in their churches.


More litterally:
That folk was not wild, like many of Finda's tribes,
but equal to the Égipta-landers. They have priests like them,
and now that they have churches, also statues [of idols].

Note: Jensma added a word between brackets in his translation, stressing the idea that the Magyars were of Finda's stock:
... zoals vele [andere] geslachten van Finda, ...
... like many [other] tribes of Finda, ...

Many other fragments about Finda's people point out that they had priests (and overly powerful kings), very much despised by the peoples of Frya.
I will show these in following posts.


###


View PostJan Ott, on 26 March 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:
... the idea that the Magyars were of Finda's stock

In another fragment, it is suggested that the Finns, who arrived in what is now Finland together with the Magyars, were also of Finda's people:

[045/24] from introduction to the alphabet page
VNDER HIRA TID HETH FINDA AK EN SKRIFT UTFVNDEN.
MEN THAT WÉRE SA HÁGFÁRANDE ÀND FVL MITH FRISLA ÀND KROLUM
THAT THA ÀFTERKVMANDA THÉROF THJU BITJVDNESE RING VRLÉREN HÀVE.
ÀFTERNÉI HÀVON HJA VS SKRIFT LÉRED
BINOMA THA FINNA. THA THYRJAR ÀND THA KRÉKA.LANDAR.

Sandbach p.65
In her time Finda also invented a mode of writing,
but that was so high-flown and full of flourishes
that her descendants have soon lost the meaning of it.
Afterwards they learned our writing—
that is, the Finns, the Thyriers, and the Krekalanders


One could believe that the ancient Finns were somewhat 'Asian', but to suppose the Tyrians (now Libanon) and Greeks were as well, makes no sense. They were more probably east-Mediterranean. Not black, not white, but somewhere in between; what Frya's people might have called GÉL ('yellow' or light brown).


###

Besides the two copyist letters (Hidde and Liko 'Oera Linda'), the most recent part of the OLB is the part about Black Adel a.k.a. Askar.

In this part which is dated ca. 50 BCE, the Finda's people were still considered to be the biggest threat to the peoples of Frya:

[202/27]
WR.ALDA SÉIDE HJU HÉDE HJA THRVCH THONGAR TO HROPA LÉTA
THAT ALLET FRIAS FOLK MOSTON FRJUNDA WERTHA.
LIK SUSTAR ÀND BROTHAR TÁMED.
OWERS SKOLDE FINDAS FOLK KVMA ÀND RA ALLE FON JRTHA VRDILLIGJA.

Sandbach p.243
Wr-alda, she said, had told her by his thunder
that all the Frya's people must become friends,
and united as brothers and sisters,
otherwise Finda's people would come and sweep them off the face of the earth.


[203/09]
FORTH MOTON ALLE VPSTONDA ÀND ET FINDA.S FOLK FON FRIAS ERV DRÍVA.
NILLATH HJA THAT NAVT NE DVA ALSA SKILUN HJA SLÁVONA BENDA VMBE HJARA HALSA KRÉJA.
ALSA SKILUN THA VRLANDASKA HÉRA HJARA BERN MISBRUKA ÀND FYTRA LÉTA
TILTHJU THÀT BLOD SÍGATH INNA JOWRE GRÉVA.

Sandbach p.245
They must all rise up and drive Finda's people out of Frya's inheritance [or: territory].
If you will not do that, you will bring the [get] slave-chains round your necks,
and the foreign chiefs will ill-treat [or: abuse] your children and flog them
till the blood streams into your graves.


We all know what was the biggest threat to northern Europe around the year zero.
It was not Asians but Romans; Mediterranean people.
This is another indication that with 'Finda's people' not Asians (our so-called 'yellow race') was meant.


###

Minno, the sea-king, seer and philosopher who gave laws to the people of Crete, said this about the Finda's tribes and their kings and priests:

[031/28] about their kings
THÉRA. HWAM.HIS GÁST THÀT LESTIGOSTE SY. ÀND THÉRTRVCH STERIK.
THAM.HIS HÔNE KRÉIATH KÉNING. 

ÀND THA ÔRA MOTON ALWENNA AN SIN WELD VNDER.WURPEN WÉSA
Sandbach p.47 (poor translation)
Whoever is the most crafty 
crows over the others, 
and tries to make them submit to him

More litterally:
The one who's mind [or spirit] is most cunning and thus strong,
his 'rooster crows king' [i.e. he will rule] 
and the others must always be submitted to his power.

[033/14]
DÁHWILA WI TO DVANDE SEND EKKORUM TO SKÁDANE
KVMTH.ET NIDIGE FOLK FINDA.S MITH HJARA FALSKA PRESTERUM
JVW HÀWA TO RÁWANDE JVWA TOGHATERA TO SKÀNDANE.
JVWA SÉDA TO VRDVA ÀND TO THA LESTA
KLÀPPATH HJA SLÁVONA.BANDA OM JAHWELIKES FRYA HALS.

Sandbach p.49
while you are injuring each other
the spiteful Finda's people with their false priests come
and attack your ports [rob your possessions], ravish [i.e. rape] your daughters,
corrupt your morals, and at last
throw the bonds of slavery over every freeman's [i.e. 'Frya'] neck.


###

More thoughts from Minno about the people of Finda and their laws:

[031/18]:
POGA BLÉSATH HJARA SELVA VPPA. 
ÀND HJA NE MÜGATH NAWET THÀN KRUPA.
FORSKA HROPATH WÀRK . WÀRK. 

ÀND HJA NE DVATH NAWET AS HIPPA ÀND KLUCHT MÁKJA.
THA ROKA HROPATH SPÁR . SPÁR. 

MEN HJA STÉLON ÀND VRSLYNATH AL WAT VNDER HJARA SNAVELA KVMATH.
LIK ALTHAM IS THÀT FINDAS.FOLK.
HJA BOGATH IMMER OVIR GODA ÉWA.
EK WIL SETMA MÁKJA VMB.ET KWÁD TO WÉRANE.
MEN SELVA NIL NIMMAN THÉR AN BONDEN WÉSA.

Sandbach p.47
The toad blows himself out, 
but he can only crawl.
The frog cries "Work, work;" 

but he can do nothing but hop and make himself ridiculous.
The raven [i.e. rook] cries "Spare, spare;" 

but he steals and wastes everything that he gets into his beak.
Finda's people are just like these.
They say a great deal about making good laws,
and every one wishes to make regulations against misconduct,
but does not wish to submit to them himself.


[040/03]
THACH MIN ÀJN WITHER FARA TO LÉTANDE.
SA WIL.K MITH THESA SKÉDNESA ALLÉNA SÉZA.
THAT WI NAVT MÜGE HÉMA MITH ET FINDAS FOLK FON WÉR THAT ET SY.
HWAND THÀT HJA FVL SEND MITH FALSKA.RENKA.
ÉWA TO FRÉSANE AS HJARA SWETE WINA MITH DÉJANDE FENIN.

Sandbach p.59
Leaving alone, then, my own adventures,
I will conclude this history by saying
that we must not have anything to do with Finda's people, wherever it may be,
because they are full of false tricks,
fully as much to be feared as their sweet wine with deadly poison.


More about the laws of the Finda people (benefitting only the priests and kings, i.e. the upper class), from the introduction to the 'rules/ laws and regulations' (of the Frya people), author unknown:

[040/28]:
THÀT FOLK FINDA.S HETH ÁK SETMA ÀND DOMAR.
MEN THISSA NE SEND NAVT NÉI THA RJUCHT.
MEN ALLÉNA TO BATA THÉRA PRESTERA ÀND FORSTA.
THANA SEND HJARA STÁTA IMMERTHE FVL TISPALT ÀND MORD.

Sandbach p.59
The people of Finda have also their rules and regulations,
but these are not made according to what is just—
only for the advantage of priests and princes
therefore their states are [always] full of disputes and murder.


###

Most interestingly, some properties of the Finda priesthoods are described in the second part of the 'oldest doctrine' (FORM.LÉR):

[100/02]
EMONG FINDA.S FOLK SEND WAN.WÍSA.
THÉR THRVCH HJARA OVER.FINDINGRIKHÉD AL SA ÀRG SEND EWRDEN
THÀT HJA HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA ÀND THA INEWIDA BITJUGA
THÀT HJA THET BESTA DÉL SEND FON WR.ALDA.
THET HJARA GÁST THET BESTE DÉL IS FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST
ÀND THET WR.ALDA ALLÉNA MÉI THÀNKJA THRVCH HELPE HJAR.IS BRYN.

Sandbach p.139
Among Finda's people there are false teachers [i.e. 'vain-wise'],
who, by their over-inventiveness, have become so wicked
that they make themselves and their adherents [i.e. the laymen] believe
that they are the best part of Wr-alda,
that their spirit is the best part of Wr-alda's spirit,
and that Wr-alda can only think by the help of their brains.


[100/21] and Sandbach p.139
MEN FINDAS FOLK IS EN ÀRG FOLK.
HWAND AFSKÉN THA WAN.WÍSA THÉRA.
HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA THÀT HJA DROCHTNE SEND.
SA HÀVON HJA TO FÁRA THA VN.EWIDA FALXA DROCHTNE.ESKÉPEN.
TO KÉTHANDE ALLER WÉIKES THÀT THISSA DROCHTNE WRALDA ESKÉPEN HÀVE.
MITH AL HWAT THÉR INNE IS. ~

Finda's people are a wicked people,
for although they [the 'vain-wise' of them] presumptuously
pretend among themselves that they are gods,
they proclaim the unconsecrated false gods,
and declare everywhere that these idols created the world
and all that therein is—

GÍRIGA DROCHTNE FVL NÍD ÀND TORN.
THAM ÉRATH ÀND THJANATH WILLATH WÉSA. THRVCH THA MÀNNISKA. 

THÉR BLOD ÀND OFFER WILLA ÀND SKÀT ASKJA. ~
greedy idols, full of envy and anger,
who desire to be served and honoured by the people,
and who exact [or: demand] bloody sacrifices and rich offerings;

MEN THI WAN.WISA FALXA MANNA
THAM HJARA SELVA GODIS SKALKA JEFTHA PRESTERA NOMA LÉTA.
BÜRATH ÀND SÁMNATH ÀND GETTHATH ALDAM TOFARA DROCHTNE
THÉRER NAVT NE SEND VMBET SELVA TO BIHALDANDE.

but these presumptuous ['vain-wise'] and false men,
who call themselves God's servants and priests,
receive and collect everything in the name of the idols
that have no real existence, for their own benefit.

ALDAM BIDRÍWATH HJA MITH EN RUM EMOD.
THRVCHDAM HJA HJARA SELVA DROCHTNE WÁNE
THÉR AN NINMAN ANDERT SKELDICH NE SEND.

They do all this with an easy conscience,
as they think themselves gods
not answerable to any one.

SEND THÉR SVME THAM HJARA RENKA FRODA ÀNDET BÁR MAKJA
ALSA WRDON HJA THRVCH HJARA RAKKERA FÀT ÀND VMBIRA LASTER VRBARNAD
ELLA MITH FÉLO STÁTSKA PLÉGUM HJARA FALXA DROCHTNE TO.N ÉRE.
MEN IN TRVTH. ALLÉNA THÉRVMBE THÀT HJA.RA NAVT SKÁDA NE SKOLDE.

If there are some who discover their tricks and expose them,
they hand them over to the executioners to be burnt for their calumnies,
with solemn ceremonies in honour of the false gods;
but really in order to save themselves.


Posted Image


###

A fragment suggesting that to be considered of Finda's blood is more about someones behavior, than about skincolour (or actual descent):

[043/25]
SAHWERSA THÉR ÉNIS IMMAN WÉRE. SÁ ÀRG
THÀT I VS GVNG VRRÉDE BY THA FYAND. 

PÁDA ÀND TO PÁDA WÉS. VMBE VSA FLÍBURGA TO NAKA 
JEFTHA THES NACHTIS THÉRIN TO GLUPA
THAM WÉRE ALLÉNA WROCHT UT FINDA.S BLOD.


Sandbach p.63 (poor translation)
If any man should prove a traitor
and show to our enemies 

the paths leading to our places of refuge, 
or creep into them by night,
he must be the offspring of Finda;


More literally:
If someone once were so evil,
that he would betray us to the enemy,
show (them) paths and access roads that lead to our 'fleeburghs' (hidden strongholds),
or to creep into them by night,
then he were only wrought of Finda's blood.


###

Some other fragments suggest that Finda's land was situated more in the east and that at least some Finda peoples looked more Mongolian (Tartars).

[136/11] Buda a.k.a. Krisen etc
IN.T HIRTE FON FINDA.S LÁND VPPET BERCHTA 
LÉID EN DEL THÉR IS KÉTHEN KASAMÍR.
Sandbach p.185
In the heart of Findasland, upon a mountain, 
lies a plain called Kasamyr (Cashmere)

[157/07] Adel
THA TARTARA IS EN BRUN FINDAS FOLK
Sandbach p.213
The Tartars are a brown tribe of Finda's people

[204/03] Adel
THA TARTARA SEND EN DÉL FON FINDA.S SLACHTE
Sandbach p.245
The Tartars are a branch of Finda's race

But these fragments are relatively recent, so the concept may have changed, or it simply differed between the various authors.

Posted Image


###


View PostJan Ott, on 26 March 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:
Some other fragments suggest that Finda's land was situated more in the east ...

Ljudgért was a Gértman from Punjab, who came to Fryasland with Friso's fleet, ca. 300 BCE, and became friends with Fréthorik Oera Linda.

Posted Image

He wrote about the people of north-west India:

[163/29]:
VNDER THA HINDOS ÀND ÔTHERA UT.A LÔNDUM
SIND WELKA LJUDA MANK THÉR AN STILNISE BÍ MALKÔRUM KVMA.
SE GELÁVATH THET SE VNFORBASTERE BERN FINDA.S SIND.
SE GELÁVATH THET FINDA FONUT.ET HIMMEL.LÀJA BERTA BERN IS.
HVANÁ SE MITH HJARA BERN NÉI THA DELTA JEFTHA LÉGTE TOGEN IS. ~
WELKE VNDER THAM GELÁVATH THET SE MITH HJRA BERN
VPPET SKUM THER HÉLIGE GONGG.À DEL GONGGEN IS.
THÉRVMBE SKOLDE THI RUN.STRÁME HÉLIGE GONGG.À HÉTA.

Sandbach p.221
Among the Hindoos and others out of these countries
there are people who meet together secretly [in silence].
They believe that they are pure [unbasτardised] children of Finda,
and that Finda was born in the Himmellaia mountains,
whence she went with her children to the [delta or] lowlands.
Some of them believe that she, with her children,
floated down upon the foam of the [holy] Ganges,
and that that is the reason why the river is called the Sacred Ganges [holy 'Gongg-à'].

Quote
In Hinduism, the river Ganges is considered sacred and is personified as a goddess known as Ganga. (wiki)

Posted Image

The Ganges (or Ganga) indeed descends from the Himalayas.

Ljudgért (and the other people of Frya's) who had heard about this river goddess tradition may have interpreted it as being about Finda.

The Hindus themselves may never actually  have used that name.

No comments:

Post a Comment